Driving in France -advice sought.

mikeecho

So, possibly driving from Roscoff to La Rochelle.

In general what would be the best route.

Google shows routes with and without tolls, all seem to be pretty much the same distance and time.

4hr 47m , 459km tolls

5hr , 437km tolls

5h 17m, 478, no tolls

Thoughts. It'll pretty much be a continuous drive, maybe one toilet stop, straight off the ferry and go.

A five hour motorway drive isn’t much fun. I’d plan on at least 3 stops on that route.

The tolls in France aren’t cheap btw, but driving the N road routes to avoid them isn’t a great idea either. They’re a lot busier in summer months.

Looking at that, though you mostly be on N roads. N12 and N136

The routes up the west of France aren’t all that different to Ireland in terms of traffic and motorway size unless you’re headed to a beach location.

5h24min of which 4h4min is on autoroute

Distance

465km of which 394km on autoroute(s)

Tolls are about €9.50 (assuming you’re in a car)

Maybe consider booking a night in Nantes?

Lovely, very walkable and compact city. Great food. Plenty of cultural stuff. If you’ve kids they’ll love:

https://www.lesmachines-nantes.fr/en/

WildWater

I’ve driven the west coast of France many times and that route is easily doable with one stop.

E50 to Rennes

E3 to Nantes

A83 - A87 south

D137 - D9 to La Rochelle

If you want to avoid the toll you have to go into La Roche-sur-Yon and that is a PITA. Yes, tolls in France are expensive but your actual tolled length on this route not that long. Basically, just north of La Roche to where you turn off for the D137. If the objective is ‘to get there’ then I’d pay that toll.

mikeecho

I'm used to driving long distance without stopping.

I have easily done 450km, with just one stop in the past a few times.

I would have food snacks sandwiches drinks all packaged up, tank brimmed and ready to go.

10-10-20

I did Roscoff to Perpignan in 14hrs and about 4 stops - I'm not a big believer in stopping unless you need to! :)

There are two effective routes to La Rochelle:

1. Nantes/Rennes then jump off the motorway to join the D137 to the destination. The tolls only apply here on the A83 and it's EUR 9.50.
2. Vannes/Nantes then jump off at motorway to join the D137 to the destination. Again the tolls only apply here on the A83 and it's EUR 9.50.

Nantes/Rennes is my chosen one as the roads are very good and don't tend to be too busy up that far North. 95% of all of the traffic off the boat will take this route, but even being last off won't be a problem as the N12 is a good dual carriageway. Vannes/Nantes is not preferable to me as the section from Morlaix to Lorient is over some hills and is single track; you will get stuck behind a tractor.

Any third route is either a touristic/sight-seeing event and should be avoided at all costs unless you specifically like looking at Pierre's French tractor.

And also try this planner:

https://www.viamichelin.com/

mikeecho

Thanks, some great advice given.

Once you get off the dual carriageways / motorways rural western French driving isn’t very different to rural Ireland, so basically take non-motorway / dual carriageway N roads google maps timing as a bit theoretical. There are plenty of tractors, pelotons of cyclists and slow moving camper vans and all sorts of stuff!

Toll charge calculator:

https://www.sanef.com/en/my-journey/price-of-my-journey

Also the adherence to speed limits has improved a lot in recent years due to the crackdown and use of rolling ANPR speed traps, so just take it easy on the roads. It’s not what it used to be in terms of speed demon drivers. You still get the odd boy racer loon on the small roads, but many seem to have retired…

If you’re not in a rush though, take a few coffee breaks along the way and one big stop. It makes for a more enjoyable trip.

mikeecho

Last Q

Fill up here or there (diesel)

Ideally, I'll be coming off the boat on a full tank and hitting the road.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593232#Comment_120593232

https://lmgtfy.app/?q=how+much+is+diesel+in+france

...

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593232#Comment_120593232

The site https://www.prix-carburants.gouv.fr/ (all in French, but easy to figure out) will allow you to see what the current price of fuel is for any given location and/or itinerary. For the itinerary, the site pulls info from viamichelin (as recommended by 10-10-20). Given that different départements in France apply their own local taxes to motor fuel, there can be quite a difference in price in the space of just a few km. It's also a handy way of figuring out whether or not a detour is worth it (mostly if you were already planning to stop at a supermarket/out-of-town shopping centre anyway).

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593558#Comment_120593558

That's great. I'll be stocking up on wine on the return journey, so I'll need to fill up while doing so.

Car has a 1000 to 1200k range on a full tank, so I could theoretically make it there and back on a tank, but I'll be doing some sight seeing there, and a roof box will reduce fuel economy.

*Due to family necessity, they'll be flying out and I'll boat/drive.. it's easier in the long run.

I'll collect from airport with all the luggage etc, and do the same on return, with some extra wine/spirts

spuddy

Good advice given there on the routes. I've had the pleasure of driving all over France over the years. Avoid an accident though, and familiarise yourself with "priorite a droite", right-side priority. it can seem counter-intuitive at first, but like everything, you get used to it. Learn the signs (the "X" and the yellow diamond in particular) and watch the road markings carefully.

Edit: this is a great video, he's spot on on all the topics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvDJRABhVh0

Other links: https://www.thelocal.fr/20190808/how-does-priorit-droite-really-work-when-youre-driving-in-france

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593232#Comment_120593232

The BF boat normally gets in at 07:00 so you're on the road by 07.30 to 07:45 and if you're like us we don't fancy the breakfast on the boat. We usually hit the road and drive for about 2hrs and grab a bit of food then. You'll be at or around Rennes by then and it's ideal for fuel and food in a supermarket just off the motorway. If you top up the car then you can avoid the more expensive 'on-line' fuel at the motorway after Nantes anyway.

Can I also give you a tip, if you like Brioche drop into one of the shops along the D137 for a fresh loaf. You know you've hit Vendee when you taste a fresh Brioche. 🤩

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.5217207,-1.0842453,3a,60y,257.39h,94.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sluEIJkXsWNy9dD2Eezt2xA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Enjoy!

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593597#Comment_120593597

We do this every year & have been doing it for years in a camper. We're thinking of flying wife & small kids with me driving the older kids this year, I'd be interested how that works for you.

Watch out for French holidays. They seem to all take their time off between the 10th of July to the 20th of August. This means really really heavy traffic especially around Nantes.

***My serious serious advice even if you're not travelling on these dates is to get North a day before the ferry and try to overnight in a campsite or air&B & get the ferry the next day. I can't stress how important this is!!***

A five hour drive from the Vendee to your ferry terminal can turn in to a nine hour + slog. We met three families in the last few years that missed the ferry driving up from the South on the same day as the ferry due to traffic. One family had to buy tents in decathlon and camp in a kind French families garden. Very stressful in hot temperatures and no toilets. They left the South with 5 hours on Googlemaps & it stayed at 5 hours for another 5 hours. Nightmare.

Also, don't be surprised to see a tailback of forty cars crawling behind a group of cyclists for 10 kilometres! They're very patient and laid back & probably had a couple of rouge during lunch. However it's not a stressful place to drive compared to Italy, Ireland, England or America, it's quiet pleasant and relaxed, windows open and lots of nice sights, smells and sounds. You can stop off in farmyards to buy really high quality Calvados, wine, Pommeau (highly recommend) & cider.

There's various rules, you need spare bulbs for all your lights on board, a hazard triangle & high vis jackets for everyone in the car.

Best of luck, you'll have a ball, & enjoy extremely good wine for months. Let us know how you get on.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.viamichelin.com/ site and app is handy for giving toll and fuel costs.

And suggesting different/more sensible routes than google which will send you down back roads to save a minute or two.

Don't forget get thingies for headlights. Or just use tape to block off parts of the beam.

AlanG

If you go off motorway beware of the speed limits. There are no speed limit signs when you enter an urban area. Once you pass the sign with the name of the Village you are in the lower speed limit area, I think its 50k. leaving the area there will be a sign with the name of the village and a line through it. You are back up to 80k.

Waze is good for giving you speed limits. The Via Mitchelen app is good for giving you the cost of tolls.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600284#Comment_120600284

50kmh is indeed the default "urban" speed limit, but more and more towns and villages have introduced 30kmh limits for most of their town/village centre (even if that's only 100m). The fine for exceeding the limit in an urban area is considerably more than on the main roads.

When you leave the town, the limit might be 80kmh - but it could also be 70kmh or 90kmh. If it's 70, there'll be a sign, but if there's no sign, you're expected to know what the departmental speed limit is, as the government decided to delegate the setting of the "national" speed limit to each département. Some apply a blanket 80; others apply a blanket 90; and yet more others do a semi-random pick-n-mix of 80 and 90.

For the most part, though, if there's a (fixed) speed camera up ahead, there will be a speed limit reminder sign beforehand (usually with the word "rappel" underneath - but you get that regularly anyhow, so in itself it's not a warning of a camera). The ones you really need to watch out for are the average-speed cameras on motorways or other main roads, where it's easy to forget that you're being monitored over a kilometre or more and the conditions encourage you to drive at what you think is the usual maximum when it's actually 20kmh less.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120593558#Comment_120593558

The only regions where excise on fuels is different are Ile-de-France (Paris region) where it's approx 2cent higher than the rest of France, and Auvergne-Rhone-Alps where it's approx 0.3cent cheaper than the rest of France. https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/fiscalite-des-energies

Regional variations happen due to the cost of getting fuel to the local supply terminal. Some regions have a refinery (typically cheapest) whilst in some the local supply terminal is replenished by pipeline or rail (typically more expensive).

Prix-carburants.gouv.fr is indeed the best resource for fuel prices, as the service stations are legally obliged to have their prices up to date on the site and get fined for non-compliance.

Typically, the cheapest fuel will be at the hypermarkets (and usually e.Leclerc the best of the hypers).. The self-service or basic-service stations like Total Access and Esso Express then tend to be next cheapest (and often more convenient), but often 1-2c more expensive than the hypers.

Other regular service stations will typically be 3-8c more expensive, and then motorway stations tend to be the most expensive - with service stations on tolled motorways often being 15-25c more expensive than the hypers.

CelticRambler

@blackwhite

The only regions where excise on fuels is different are Ile-de-France (Paris region) where it's approx 2cent higher than the rest of France, and Auvergne-Rhone-Alps where it's approx 0.3cent cheaper than the rest of France. https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/fiscalite-des-energies

Regional variations happen due to the cost of getting fuel to the local supply terminal. Some regions have a refinery (typically cheapest) whilst in some the local supply terminal is replenished by pipeline or rail (typically more expensive).

That's not entirely correct (but the detail is well off-topic for this thread) and not how it works in practice. Typically, the more affluent départements - where, coincidentally, the majority of the refineries are located - will have higher prices for fuel. Normandy is one of the most expensive régions, despite being the country's primary refining location (currently about 5ct/litre more than in the Doubs, for example) and as someone who travels the length and breath of France for work in a thirsty vehicle, I know that it's worth waiting till I cross certain internal borders before topping up (or doing so before crossing the border into [for example] Normandy).

Furze99

Driving on main roads is handy enough and you can adjust quickly. Where I always found trickier is car parks and the like. You enter a large supermarket car park here and you instinctively read what other drivers are doing and which way to steer. But much easier to misinterpret on the continent, watch carefully.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605122#Comment_120605122

I spent the best part of the last decade working for a company that owns a retail fuel network in France and for a period had the pricing team reporting in to me.

And I’ve just provided a link to the french government website detailing the tax rates by region.

How I’ve outlined is exactly how the taxes work on fuel

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605676#Comment_120605676

Things have changed in the last decade, which was primarily a time of transition from one pricing regime to another (and still evolving). This is how the different regions apply their part of the tax in 2023 (€/MWh, currently four different regimes; the effect is amplified by the application of VAT to this and the other charges)

Région .............................Gazole ..... SP95-E5 et SP98 .... SP95-E10

Ile-de-France .....................62,64 .....................78,795 .........76,545

Centre Val de Loire .............60,75 .....................77,647 .........75,397

Bourgogne-Franche-Comté ..60,75 .....................77,647 .........75,397

Normandie ........................60,75 .....................77,647 .........75,397

Hauts de France .................60,75 .....................77,647 .........75,397

Grand Est ..........................60,75 .....................77,647 .........75,397

Pays de la Loire ..................60,75 .....................77,647 .........75,397

Bretagne ...........................60,75 .....................77,647 .........75,397

Nouvelle Aquitaine ..............60,75 .....................77,647 .........75,397

Occitanie ...........................60,75 ......................77,647 ........75,397

Auvergne-Rhône-Alples .......60,48 ......................77,479 ........75,229

PACA ................................60,75 ......................77,647 ........75,397

Corse ................................59,40 .....................75,701 ........73,451 

Like I said above, I have to pay for this stuff out of my own funds, so I keep a very close eye on which regions are making what gestures to help or dissuade people from filling their tanks, and prix-carburants.gouv.fr shows that the differences consistent and very real. Of course certain retail fuel networks are more - or less - inclined to engage in aggressive competition and will happily sell their stock at the current market rate, regardless of what price they bought it at. But again, that's not the kind of detail that the OP needs to worry about for a short trip.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606161#Comment_120606161

Exactly as I outlined - Ile-de-France is approx 2c higher, Auvergne less than 0.3c lower, and every other region with the exact same taxes. Not the huge variation in taxes from region to region that you originally claimed.

As for this:

Of course certain retail fuel networks are more - or less - inclined to engage in aggressive competition and will happily sell their stock at the current market rate, regardless of what price they bought it at.

Below cost selling of fuel is illegal in France, and there are regular inspections from national, regional and departmental authorities to check for compliance.

banchang

Side question:

Apparently it’s a requirement when driving in France to have a warning triangle, hi viz jacket, breathalyzer & a set of spare car bulbs

I drive an electric Ioniq5 with LED lights - not sure what bulbs you have but if LED, did you buy & carry a set of spare LED bulbs ?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646566#Comment_120646566

Look, it's a requirement, but it's not enforced. Saying that I do carry a set in my Kona to cover off what is needed such as a H4 and license-plate bulbs.

You can easily pick the sets up in service-stations in France, so don't get too concerned about it. The hi-viz jacket is more pressing to be honest.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646566#Comment_120646566

It is obligatory to have a hi-viz jacket within easy reach of the driver (in the glove box is acceptable) and it's the kind of thing that you may well get challenged about, especially if (for example) you've been pulled over for speeding or some other incident. It's also obligatory to put it on if you need to exit the vehicle on a motorway ... and you must exit the vehicle if it breaks down on a motorway and stay behind the crash barrier until assistance arrives.

It is obligatory to carry a warning triangle ... but not obligatory to use it if you believe that putting it in place behind the vehicle would be dangerous.

Since May 2020 it is no longer obligatory to carry a breathalyser.

It is recommended that you carry a spare set of bulbs so that the vehicle can be restored to full roadworthiness in the event that one or more lights fail. An hour's drive on any country road after dark will show you how infrequently this recommendation is followed; I've never heard of anyone, ever, being given even a warning over a blown bulb.

highly1111

Hi all

This has been very useful. Thank you!

Does anyone have any advice regarding Electric charging points in France? I've a Kia Niro with a max range of 400km but it'll be full to the brim and with a roof box. Do I need to register with anyone/anything before leaving?

We are going from Cherbourg to Vendee.

Thanks

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727730#Comment_120727730

Best ask again in this specific thread, you'll get tips and help there!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058291245/who-s-bringing-the-horse-no-ev-to-france

Oh - and last years' thread is here:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242371/charging-in-france-2022