Ballina Mayo 300 Years

TruthEnforcer

With all the current hype over Ballina celebrating it's 'official' 300 years existence..including a year of 'celebration' in 2023,. Can I ask how 1723 was selected.

On any websites about the 300 years, they all state the same ..." founded by Lord Tyrawley in 1723" ....trouble I have is, the Lord Tyrawley they claim was Lord Kilmaine in 1721 and only got the title of "Baron of Tyrawley " in 1724, becoming "Baron of Tyrawley & Kilmaine".

Is there an actual "Town Charter" or is it just more Irish Fakehistory ?

Peregrinus

Town charters and the like come well after the establishment of the actual town — nobody issues a charter creating a corporation of a mayor and 12 burgesses for a collection of green fields. Rather, a settlement grows up, it reaches the size where it needs some kind of organisation and management, the residents petition the authorities, a charter is granted.

Ballina was a garrison town and my suspicion, without having investigated it, is that 1723 marks the establishment of a military camp or barracks. (The barracks, or remains of, that is there now dates only from about 1740, but it may have replaced the original camp.) The town then grew up to serve the barracks.

It's true that James O'Hara didn't inherit the Tyrawley title until 1724, whereas he was "Lord Kilmaine" from 1722. But by the time the town would have been of any size he was Lord Tyrawley, and he was known by that title for the rest of his fairly long career in various public offices. In the 1730s and 1740s and afterwards, residents of Ballina would certainly have talked about their town's connection with Lord Tyrawley; if they had talked about Lord Kimaine, very few people would have known who they meant.

TruthEnforcer

So ..you probably don't think they ever got a Royal Charter ...or any official Town Establishment ....so the year 1723 was a handy pick coming into 2023 ...

In comparison, Castlebar was granted a charter of incorporation in 1613 by James I of England. Under the charter the town had a portreeve (mayor) and a fifteen-member corporation and was entitled to elect two members to the Parliament of Ireland.[4]

Typical Irish History 'makeyuppy' to fit a narrative !

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571018#Comment_120571018

No, I didn't say that they never got a royal charter or similar — I don't know whether they did or not or, if they did, when that happened. The tercentenary is the centenary of the establishment of the town, not of the grant of any charter that it may have had.

This isn't "makeyuppy"; it's the opposite of that — it's looking at social realities, rather than legal fictions. It would be absurd to suggest that a town doesn't exist unless/until a charter is granted. Ballina undoubtedly exists today despite quite possibly never having been granted any charter. And, as already pointed out, even if it does have a charter, the town certainly existed before the charter was granted — its existence was the reason for the grant of the charter.

Similarly, Castlebar may have been chartered in 1613, but the town is much older than that. It grew up around the castle, which we know was constructed in 1235.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571018#Comment_120571018

Wow, talk about only hearing what you want to hear! Have another go a reading the response! If you want to believe that towns and cities only exist after they receive some kind of official documentation that is up to you, but getting all upset when everyone else takes view that towns have to exist before they can be recognized is just nonsense!

TruthEnforcer

I have no problem with any town wishing to have some excuse for a 'celebration' and getting tax payers money to fund it ...but it would make some sense if there was some logic to the fakery ...

If I was some sort of 'Conspirosy Theorist' I might think that it was a nice coincidence that 2023 was also the actual anniversary for the Good Friday Agreement ..and heyho, who'd be able to come home to his roots only the one and only US President Mr. Joe Biden,. who's closer relations hailed from County Louth ..but that's another story.

Would be interesting who actually came up with 1723 ?

Peregrinus

Never account for by a conspiracy theory that which requires no conspiracy theory to explain it; it just makes you look paranoid.

The parsimonious explanation for the choice of 1723 is that something of significance in the development of the town occurred in 1723. You could, perhaps, argue that that event did not really represent the foundation of the town but, to make that argument, you'd have to know what the event was, a course which you rule out if your position is that no event occurred; the whole thing is "fakery". If you want us to believe that nothing occurred, you'll have to offer us some reason to think so. Simply crying "fakery" doesn't do that; it just makes us bracket you with Donald Trump, which is probably not the effect you were hoping to achieve.

We can dismiss immediately the thought that 1723 was chosen because it would enable a tercentenary celebration coinciding with the 25th anniversary of the GFA. Those of us who have mastered the Google book search can report that books published long before the GFA was ever thought of date the founding of modern Ballina to 1723.

(The 1723 event seems to have been the establishment of a colony of linen weavers there. At that time the settlement seems to have been more or less moribund — the castle, and later the abbey, which the town had served were long gone, and the town had declined to virtually nothing. Tyrawley decided to revive it, importing flax and linen workers and their families, and building accommodation and workshops. He supplemented the linen industry with a cotton factory (which failed). He also established a regular fair, to try to develop the town as a market town for the surrounding region, and (in due course) used his connections in the Irish military establishment (his father had been Commander-in-Chief, Ireland) to have a garrison located there.)

TruthEnforcer

All good and well..but it doesn't answer exactly why. 1723 was chosen and by who ...it's not for me to prove it wasn't 1723 why I didn't pick the year ...it would be great for a genuine reason given ..and sorry for being 'paranoid' ...I ain't ..just trying to get an answer to a question that nobody seems can give an answer to ! only give suggestions..which is a bit odd in modern times.

Peregrinus

Well, Tyrawley chose to found the weavers' colony in 1723, so I suppose the answer is that he chose that year, though he probably didn't think of it as "1723"; he thought of it as "now".

Who decided that the foundation of the weavers' colony was an event whose anniversary is worthy of commemoration? I would think local community groups and/or the local government. As already pointed out, the idea that the modern town was founded in 1723 has been around for a long time; people would be aware of the anniversary coming up. In a place with any kind of civic pride at all, it's almost inevitable that somebody, and probably more than one person, would suggest there should be commemorative events; there would be conversations about this, followed by meetings, followed by planning and funding. I'm going to hazard a guess that those involved included any or all of local government, the chamber of commerce, residents' groups, community groups. Planning for the events has been going on for three or four years; the social media accounts for Ballina 2023 go back to 2020, and they are unlikely to have dropped fully-formed out of the heavens.