Builders Fees

cajonlardo

Hi

Last winter I asked a builder to quote me on restoration jobs in our home

The builder sent me a WhatsApp message photos of handwritten quote on headed paper.

I opened this message and what I saw was a single page ( this is relevant for later problems)

Several of the key jobs were not listed. I messaged back pointing out the missing jobs.

Builder replied stating individually each of those missing jobs were included in the quote

I replied asking to go ahead with the work.

Someway after work began we had to leave home to facilitate work.

Builder advised us on several occassions in messages extra work was required

We told him we needed to be updated as and when extra expense was incurred. This did not happen and several jobs were carried out prior to advising us they had been undertaken

Several times either verbally or in messages we expressed serious concern regarding the mounting expenses but he still did not advise us

I went to the site and advised builder I needed updated outstanding costs as I couldnt sleep for worrying

Finally he sent a whats app with ORIGINAL quote

There were actually 3 pages where I had only seen a single page when I initially accepted quote.

It now transpired we would owe 55 thousand euros more on the original quote along with an additional 20 thousand euros.

The 3 page quote total was far more than we would ever have accepted or can afford to pay

Several items quoted are seriously priced above highest going market rate ( installing laminate floor @ 80 euros per sq m for example ) Actually ludicrous overpricing

On top of that builder had added " Prelims" which he wants to charge at 9 % on the entire price .He has also priced same job several times over in both quote and additional expenses

To date we are up to date with payment and reasonably satisfied with work.

How do I now proceed? Legally am I bound to pay entire amount even though we would never have engaged had we seen his pricing?

Had he any legal bound duty to ensure we saw a proper quote or should a contract have been signed?

What about his " Prelims" ?

If I had seen this charge alone Id have declined the quote

Thanks for any help or advise

TooTired123

Did you sign the contract? If you want to avoid further expense with a solicitor then you should ring your local Citizens Information Centre and ask to be referred to FLAC who in turn will arrange to speak to you by appointment over the phone.

Victor

What does the contract say? Did you retain a professional to supervise the works?

Preliminaries are perfectly normal in construction.

cajonlardo

Thank you Victor & Tootired

There is no Written Contract - aside from the WhatsApp messages there is absolutely nothing.

Taking onboard the citizens advise / flac advise

Since my O.P I have spoken to a retired builder and he explained the Preliminaries to me and that they are standard practice - he did say they should be outlined in broad detail as to what they cover. My real issue is that I never saw these quoted and along with some of the remaining pricing that I did not originally see on a quote and then the additional extra charges.

cajonlardo

P.S

Im not interested in denying the builder what he is legally / morally due. I just need to be careful

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120543390#Comment_120543390

Was it the case that the three pages were sent to you in the first instance (before works began) but you only noticed page 1 when looking at it on your phone?

cajonlardo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120544797#Comment_120544797

Yes that is exactly what happened.

Deeec

It seems you were incredibly stupid ( sorry). It seems the builder did send you the correct quote but you didn't look at it properly - I can't see you have any comeback. Given that it sounds like you are doing a big renovation to your house, why didn't you sit down face to face with builder to discuss the quote before agreeing anything. I bet the builder couldn't believe his luck when you agreed the job through WhatsApp!

What amounts were the quotes you got from other builders. You may be able to argue this point if other builders quoted lower values.

The extras he's charging you could be argued as it seems you never agreed a price for these

CramCycle

I hate to say it but I imagine if you go to FLAC or a solicitor, you have a copy of the quote and then you agreeing to it, they won't say what you want to hear. It maybe whatsapp but you have it in writing effectively. Best you could hope for, provided you have given enough to cover materials is to agree a payment plan but there is no obligation for him to accept it. You can argue against the extra works, for this, if it is as you say that you asked to be advised of them before starting them, and they haven't, you might have some recourse. Either way, sitting down and setting it out in writing what you are getting done above the original quote and if they are necessary or just nice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545047#Comment_120545047

Not much point in arguing that you had lower quotes from other builders when the op has agreed to a higher quote, unfortunately.

cajonlardo

O.K thanks

Several of you confirming what I had suspected. Appreciate the advise

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545104#Comment_120545104

Oh I know but it could give the OP an indication that they are being completely ripped off by this builder.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545306#Comment_120545306

That ship has sailed.

Girl Geraldine

Sounds like you are totally and utterly mismanaging things. And the builder sees your incompetence and is potentially trying to make the most out of your poor oversight.

cajonlardo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545417#Comment_120545417

If the original WhatsApp will be seen as a caste iron contract then so be it.

That very obviously cuts BOTH ways and the builder hasnt a leg to stand on adding un- advised extra costs without agreement.

Further, we've listed significant either double or partial overcharging - this could be accidental but either way will be deducted.

All in all I am now confident project will be only very slightly over original expectation and I am also confident builder will agree when he sees our figures. I now believe both parties will be satisfied.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120545524#Comment_120545524

Contracts can be verbal, they don’t have to be written, and I suspect more and more are being sent electronically. The builder will have proof you received/viewed it if it was sent by WhatsApp, and probably has a reply from you saying to go ahead.

In relation to the itemised list, hopefully you are right and can show work either wasn’t done or was double billed, but be prepared for the builder to show/prove that the bill is accurate.