Evacuation of Sudan/Irish citizens

Field east

I cannot understand why we need to send out army personnel to Jabouti to receive Irish citizens being flown from Sudan -Khartoum- by French and Spanish aircraft , organise accommodation/food for them and fly them back to Ireland. Would individuals with diplomatic experience be much more adept at this kind of task. The army can do nothing if ‘ a fight breaks out’ as they have no weapons. Maybe an army driver might be useful if the vehicles going to or from an airport have to avoid obstacles / crowds. A garda driver could do this also.

UK sent out 1200 army rangers to get the diplomats out. They left the civilians behind.

Sam Russell

I doubt the army rangers are looking in Djibouti for B&B for Irish citizens. Foreign Affairs personnel are also going - presumably to help with paperwork/passports/visas.

I would think the ARs are going into Sudan to escort convoys out, and assisting French and Spanish forces.

Why would they not be armed?

techman1

And no heavy lift aircraft to do it anyway, we are dependant on the kindness of our European neighbours. This is the second time we have had to ask for help with this in 2 years. Our military is woefully under resourced, this is all coming into focus with the Ukraine war ,the biggest land war since ww2

Sam Russell

So we should have a heavy lift aircraft in case we needed it?

Can we not hire as needed.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514138#Comment_120514138

Generally impossible to hire aircraft to fly in to a warzone.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514146#Comment_120514146

Djibouti is not in a war zone - well, however it is surrounded by them.

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514138#Comment_120514138

i heard from radio on a few occasions that the AT are not allowed to be armed on this mission . I do not know if is as per Djibouti rules or Irish/UN regulations re evacuating citizens in a war situation . I am open to correction. On radio yesterday there was a lady on talking about the bravery of these ‘ extremely well trained soldiers. She seems to be involved with a group supporting the wives/partners of these soldiers. She even said that they beat the Americans in a sniper/target shooting competition recently. Also gave the clear impression that the 12 AR are in Sudan in the thick of being involved in the evacuation of Irish citizens. Unless they are involved covertly my understanding is that they are based on Djibouti and help manage the arrival of Irish citizens there.

i would expect the British, Egyptians, Turks, German, Spanish, French, etc, ‘Special Forces’ are adequately resourced - personnel wise - and adding personnel from other nations would be taking up very valuable space/ surplus to requirements.

i wonder does Ireland have an ambassador in Sudan or is it ‘run ‘ from the Irish embassy in Kenya or Egypt. Maybe it has a consulate there which was the case at one point.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517783#Comment_120517783

We do, and he got attacked.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/attack-on-irish-diplomat-in-sudan-sent-shock-waves-through-eu-institutions-mep-1464346.html

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514146#Comment_120514146

That Ireland should have a suitable aircraft to evacuate Irish citizens in very risky/ war situations - probably cost millions + annual cost re maintenance, personnel,etc, is the same argument re beefing up our defence capacity in case we are ever threatened/ attacked. We seem to want to be independant in all situations re evacuations, sovereignty being attacked/ threatened.

unless the Maltas’ of this world threatened / attacked us , we would not have a ‘ hope in hell’ of defending ourselves. IMO the much better and much cheaper option is to upgrade our listening/observation capabilities as to what’s going on around us - both at sea, on land and in the skies and inform the ‘ appropriate authorities’ eg US, UK with the understanding that they would take appropriate action.

For God sake, what would Ireland need to stop the Russian Submarines /other sea craft cutting communication cables anyplace off our coast. Ring the fishermen operation out off the Cork coast???? . Or if it found Russian military aircraft constantly flying dangerously close / skirting by Irish air space- call a meeting of the UN / call in the Russian ambassador / write a stiff letter to Putin / reciprocate the action by doing something similar - ho wait I completely forgot how big RU is , how far away it is, what Putin might cause us of and take any one or a number of the possibility of thousands of actions including the nuclear option.

Best and cheapest option is to join NATO. It might have made sense not to be a NATO member when it was formed BUT things have changed utterly in the meantime and not in a good way re soverignty, food security , refugees, cost of living, peace, suffering of millions , etc

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120517834#Comment_120517834

Well, we don't. The Irish Diplomat represents the EU, but he is a senior diplomat who is Irish.

Our nearest embassy is Ethiopia, or Egypt, depending where in Sudan the trip starts. It is 1,700 km from Khartoum to Djibouti. Just for equivalence, it is 2,000 km from Algiers to Dublin, a 5 hr trip by air.

Sudan is surrounded by war zones. Sothern Sudan (a break away region of Sudan - with internal war), Ethiopia, Eritrea, Libya, Yemen, plus plenty of unstable regimes with various internal strife.

Not a place to be.

joe40

This is actually shows how EU cooperation can work. Ireland should have better resources but ultimately we need to be more coordinated with EU efforts in times like this.

Play our part fully.

Gatling

@Field east The army can do nothing if ‘ a fight breaks out’ as they have no weapons. Maybe an army driver might be useful if the vehicles going to or from an airport have to avoid obstacles / crowds. A garda driver could do this also.

Do you honestly think the ARW are going to a war zone unarmed,,

Are Garda trained to operate in a war zone I get the feeling being able to drive a Hyundai i40 in Dublin won't serve you well if your being chased by an armed faction in a war zone,

The biggest issue is the total lack of heavy lift capabilities not to evacuate citizens in a foreign country but to be able to get our defense forces and armoured vehicles to a foreign country to help evacuate anyone that needs to get out,

Force protection the various special forces that evacuated diplomatic services were both heavily armed but also were backed up with Amored vehicles and helicopters in cases ,out 12 lads won't have their own armoured vehicles to fight from,nor will they have helicopter or drone overwatch,

We would have been better asking ana eu neighbor to evacuate our citizens and send us the Bill, rather than sending 12 soldiers because we gave foreign countries a veto over our defense forces deployments .

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513992#Comment_120513992

This. Even tiny Luxembourg has an A400M strategic military transport aircraft. Meanwhile we can't recruit and retain enough sailors to keep our tiny fleet at sea. We can't even deal with rogue Spanish fishermen and drug smugglers never mind Russians eyeing up our vital communications and energy links.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120522828#Comment_120522828

But we can send a ship to Libya but can't patrol our own waters