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Ammo allowance reductions

  • 21-04-2023 10:40pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭


    Hearing rumour that ammo allocations are being reduced on renewals. Anyone encounter this?



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Yep. Happened to me on a renewal last week. Asked to reduce by 1000.

    I hadn't done much shooting with that gun lately so I didn't argue too much. I can manage quite easily with the remaining allowance.

    They tried to get me to reduce my allowance with another renewal (different calibre) but I argued my point and showed where I shot competitions and I argued about training etc and they left my ammo allowance the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Asus1


    I subbed from 22 to 17hmr and there was 1000 rounds transferred and no questions asked.When I subbed 17hmr to 223 I was asked did I need such a large ammunition limit which in truth I didn't so I dropped down to 150 I think.I wasn't told I had to but that's maybe because I didn't question why as it didn't bother me to go down.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    I know of three people that it's happened to, across various licences

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭lmk123


    I was told that I could only have 100 rounds for my shotgun as I use it on my own land and am not a member of the gun club, it’s a nuisance to say the least as it doesn’t take long to go through it, is this just something that was made up on the spot or has anyone else been told this? I assume it’s not a rule / law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    From the latest uptodate Commissioners Guidelines (2018)

    AMMUNITION - AMOUNTS SPECIFIED IN FIREARM CERTIFICATES Section 3 of the Principal Act as amended, provides for the holder of a firearm certificate to purchase ammunition for use in the firearm and at anyone time to possess or carry not more than the amount of ammunition specified in the certificate. It is entirely a matter for the issuing person to decide on the amount of ammunition to be specified in the firearm certificate and each application will be judged on its own individual merits. The amount of ammunition granted shall be captured on the firearm certificate. The applicant shall include the maximum amount of ammunition being applied for in the relevant section of the application form FCA 1 and further information may be required by the issuing person from the applicant when considering the application. An issuing person may at any time vary the amount of ammunition specified in a firearm certificate, including at the time of renewal. The type or category of shooting being conducted by the applicant will be a key consideration for an issuing person when determining the amount of ammunition to be specified in the firearm certificate. However, issuing persons should be mindful that ammunition is usually sold in batches of, for example, 20's, 50's or 100's etc. depending on its type and the category of shooting being conducted, and this may be a consideration for an issuing person when assessing the application. It should be acknowledged that the amount of ammunition specified in a firearm certificate relates to the amount of ammunition that the licensee may possess at anyone time. The following ratio of ammunition to purpose may be considered average: • Farmer/Farming (one shotgun for vermin/pest control) - Up to 200 rounds. • Deer Stalker rifle - Up to 500 rounds. • Shotgun for clay pigeon, pheasant/pigeon/woodcock - Up to 750 rounds. • Target Shooter (member of authorised club) - Up to 1,000 rounds. 

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    1000 rounds is the least I have on any of my licences. Most are more than that. When applying for a licence, I always write a letter stating 'why' I need x amount of rounds.

    Tis easy enough to knock through 1000 rounds of .22lr. I've sometimes shot more than that in a days shooting at the range.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,419 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Best option, I do the same.

    Though a lot of Supers/Chiefs do ignore the bolded part below, in favor of the up to X being an absolute limit:

    The following ratio of ammunition to purpose may be considered average: • Farmer/Farming (one shotgun for vermin/pest control) - Up to 200 rounds. • Deer Stalker rifle - Up to 500 rounds. • Shotgun for clay pigeon, pheasant/pigeon/woodcock - Up to 750 rounds. • Target Shooter (member of authorised club) - Up to 1,000 rounds. 

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,979 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I wonder what the logic is for having vermin/pest control as the lowest tier. A farmer dealing with a pest (crows, pigeon, rats, rabbits, etc) is likely going to be firing in higher volume than say deer stalking, game birds. Should be on the 500 tier at least.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,596 ✭✭✭Feisar


    In fairness it's worded badly, I don't understand how something can be referred to as an average and then be followed with up to.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭brianfrancis45


    I recently renewed my licence for a shotgun . My licence allowed 500 cartridges and the renewal form was pre-populated and had 500 cartridges in it. However, when I got my new licence for the gun the number of cartridges was reduced to 200.

    I wrote a letter to the new Super asking why my new licence was showing only 200 cartridges . I also explained in the letter that I do a lot of clay pigeon shooting and also a lot of pigeon shooting for farmers in our gun club area, so in the summer especially I can easily use 500 cartridges in a month and that I usually buy 2 slabs of cartridges as it is cheaper to buy in bulk and also it is much more convenient to only have to drive to the firearms dealer for cartridges once a month. I asked the Super to arrange for a re-print of my new licence showing 500 hundred cartridges.The Super replied by letter saying that he would only authorise an extra 50 cartridges i.e. 250 in total , so that I could buy a slab and that this was his final decision based on " the interests of public safety".

    More than a month later and I still haven't received a re-print of the licence allowing 250 cartridges. What a pain in the neck and for no good reason !

    A question for ye - I have a 2nd shotgun and that licence authorises 500 cartridges, does that mean I can buy /be in possession of 750 cartridges in total i.e. 500 as allowed for on the licence on one gun and 250 on the licence for the other gun ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭lefthooker


    Yes you can possess 750 cartridges. You could buy 500 cartridges with license A and 250 with license B.


    Nobody wants to draw attention upon themselves, but if you get the opportunity, and want to, ask the SI what was the perceived threat to the public that required an ammo reduction because as per a district court ruling in 2018 a judge stated that “simply citing public safety without showing the allegded threat to the public was no argument at all.”



  • Registered Users Posts: 47 laoismanj


    I subbed a .22 break barell air rifle with a 1000 ammo allowance for a .25 pcp rifle and it was reduced to 500



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Recently lodged (end of May) application for a pistol with 1000 round request.

    Came back with the 1000 without question. Also S on license which I was surprised at.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    You may have just become the first civilian in Irish history, to be licenced to have a moderator on a pistol! 😉

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭Max H


    interesting question here. I have 2 shotguns, one licence allows me 500 cartridges and the other 1000. Both are 12 gauge, so i am allowed to have 1500 cartridges in total, so say i buy my 1500 allowance just before a licence is due for renewal and it comes back with a reduction on it, for example my 1000 allowance is reduced to say 250, then what do i do, take them back to the dealer, or hand them in at the local garda station.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    It raised a few eyebrows while discussing it at the range the other day alright!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,945 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Nah,sorry,a good few folks already have silencers on their lics,even in the restricted category too and post 2008 gtants as well.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭SVI40


    Just had mine cut from 1000 to 500 on a renewal. Will now have to argue the case to have it back up to 1000 again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 550 ✭✭✭JP22


    Just my tuppence worth but I would suggest.

    Arguing your case is for down the road when and if the Super won’t increase your limits? Until then don’t “flog a dead horse”, it will get you nowhere.

    Submit a formal request for an increase in ammo allowance to your Super via your FO (one page) state your reasons as to why you want an increase.

    If possible meet with your FO and explain the situation to him/her when you submit your request. A five minute face to face meeting can make all the difference.

    Suggested reasons are (some/all may apply)


    That your current ammo allotment is restrictive because:-

    -  you have to travel many miles regularly to purchase your preferred ammo as none is available locally to you,

    -  you’re a target shooter or competition shooter who practices regularly and your current allotment is not near enough,

    -  you shoot/practice most every weekend (when-ever),

    -  you compete in and practice 4 comps (example) regularly (each weekend) and you expend 250/300rds just on practice alone,

    -  price (is always a factor in today’s economy), it’s always cheaper to purchase in bulk, e.g. 500rd brick, etc.),

    -  some ammo (depends on what you shoot) comes in 275rd boxes, 525rd boxes, others in 500rd tins, etc,

    If you’re a club target shooter/frequent club user, include a print-out of your club/comps attendances as support (in my club we use key-fobs to gain entry and we can get print-outs of attendance for AGS).

    Best of luck.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭SVI40


    That is the plan. Apparently the Super has decided to cut allowances for renewals and new applications. No idea why, unless it's just to pee off the people who are probably the most law abiding due to our sport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭cosieman




  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BSA International


    It seems every time we as a community rally to an attempt/s to restrict or expand our sport the Gardai do stuff like this...........



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,945 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    And that's why we have to keep responding to each and every one of us to any and all nibbles on our personal licenses.As well as keeping a very close eye on them and politicians. Neither are to be trusted on anything related to firearm ownership here.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    And it's just a pure coincidence that most Supers are behaving like this at the moment. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭SVI40


    I know. If I was of a suspicious mind, I'd be thinking something was afoot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    You mean like blanket decisions or ultra vires arrangements, under the table

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭SVI40


    I would never think something like that could happen here. It would be a first!! 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Good job that we have access to their phones and emails, as long as they don't lose them or forget the codes

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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