Toilet blockage

fritzelly

Was speaking to a local plumbers shop about getting an auger to try and clear the toilet - it fills up then drains away - and he said to check the sewer in the back garden. There is only one i can find which flows back to the house. I can't find anything in the front garden but there is a similar sized hatch (to the one in the back garden) outside the garden near a storm drain in the pavement

Would this likely be the main sewer line from the toilet etc? (Its a one storey building) Irish water were out and say the main line is clear with no blockage so I assume they checked this pipe

I've tried those stupid plunger things and it seemed to clear it once but a week later it was back to the same problem and now nothing works to clear it

I have drain rods which the plumber conveniently sold me (cheap as chips tho).

Anyone give any advice - don't have hundreds to call out a plumber

The Continental Op

First thing to do when the toilet is working is to check if its connected to the drain you know about outside. Take the cover off and get someone to flush the toilet a couple of times. If you don't see anything coming through the drain you need to go looking for another.

If you look where the toilet is and possibly the stack outside (if there is one) you should be able to see if there is an obvious way for any drain to run and where to look for a manhole cover. Unfortunately manhole covers are often buried and you might need to go looking. Do the above first.

greasepalm

Can you find any 10 x 10" covers outside that could be lifted up to check for blockages? Our extension En suite has the exit through the wall into a curved pipe with access and into the gulley. There it got something snagged and it blocked up but had another 10 x 10" i opened and used something flexible to clear it with .

Its a case of finding where your pipes run and where your covers are to check underneath for blockages.

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478362#Comment_120478362

The toilet flange is floor based (its a cottage) and who knows where it goes from there - all plumbing runs under the house so no way to know where it runs off to

I was confused why the plumbers shop said check the sewers in the back garden, we back on to someone elses back garden. It doesn't make sense to me that it would run off to the back of the house

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478329#Comment_120478329

Like I said I'm sure IW checked that when I called them out and they said its clear so was thinking there must be something else somewhere in the garden - I would have assumed you would have drain access on your own property. Will go digging around the garden tomorrow. Just had a thought - maybe the gutter drain might give me a clue if I can see which direction its running to

rje66

Is there similar cottages next to you? If so check their layout. Prob the same.

elperello

Are you sure that the blockage is not in the u bend of the toilet ?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478409#Comment_120478409

Typically the public sewer runs through the back garden. If you're in a row of houses it probably runs from left to right across your site if you follow me

Irish water will only check the public sewer, they won't check any of the pipes connecting to the sewer. Those are your problem

The cover in the back garden might be for your sewer pipes. If you look into it, there's probably one or more pipes running towards the house and one going into the garden.

First ones are the sewer pipes for your house, second is the connection to the public sewer. Both need to be clear for everything to drain properly

When you open the cover it might be filled with sh!t (literally, get ready to hold your breath)

If it's clear then get someone to flush the toilet and watch to see which pipe it drains out of. If it's not draining freely then that pipe is blocked. If the water is pooling up in the manhole then the connection to the sewer might be blocked

Now comes the fun part, clearing it out

There's a whole bunch of options, most common are sewer rods, a long auger on a cable, or a sewer letter

Sewer rods are as described, a bunch of rods that screw into each other. There's usually two ends, an auger and a plunger

IIRC if you're pushing against the flow of water (towards the house) then use the auger. Otherwise use the plunger

Push the rods through the sewer, adding more rods as needed. ALWAYS twist the rods clockwise as you push or pull them, otherwise you might unscrew the rods in the middle of the sewer

Losing a sewer rod is basically the definition of bad day

When you find the blockage, move the auger back and forth while twisting it to break up the blockage. Try to fill up the toilet bowl with some water to increase the pressure to push the blockage out. Be persistent, it can take a while to get the blockage all the way out into the public sewer

An auger basically works similar to sewer rods but on a flexible cable meaning it can go around bends more easily. Personally I've found they can get caught on pipe joins and aren't as useful

A sewer letter is useful if you already have a pressure washer. It's basically a long hose with a high pressure spray head at the end. The idea is it uses water to clean the sewers and break up blockages

Basically you push the jetter up the pipe while pumping water. When it hits a blockage you push the jet into the blockage and it'll slowly break it up. This can take several goes to break it up fully and you keep the water pumping to get the debris to flow down the sewer

I've used a jetter successfully several times, but be warned if you aren't careful you could end up spraying sewer water all over yourself. Might be a good idea to wear mask, goggles and gloves to avoid getting cholera or some other 1900's disease

Also, wear some old clothes that you don't mind binning afterwards, just in case

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478418#Comment_120478418

ROTFL - IW checked. Thats some joke. Maybe their guys are better in your area but in ours when the council stopped looking after the water they seem to have managed to dump all the idiots they had working for them on IW. You couldn't trust the lot here to lean on a shovel without falling over. I won't list all the IW fails I've seen near me just suffice it to say they might not even have bothered looking.

Do the basics yourself, does water flow in the drain you know about when you flush the toilet. Its not rocket science.

If you have to, get out a drain clearing firm, you need a personal recommendation as they are prone to be a bunch of cowboys with some notable exceptions. Get someone who can give you a quote for half a days work with a drain camera and who has the equipment to locate drains underground. There's a "dildo" like gadget that goes on the end of drain rods with a radio transmitter in it that can be detected with a scanner. You only really need that if the camera survey doesn't show up exactly where the pipe runs go. The remote camera are quite sophisticated and should be able to show you where any problems are and provide a video of them.

If you are looking for the drain yourself a garden fork is handy to probe the ground but the covers can be meters down in a worst case. Also put the rods with a worm on the end up the drain towards the house and see if you hit anything or pull anything back. Big HINT keep turning the drain rods clockwise push them and turn clockwise pull them back and keep turning clockwise. If you don't then the rods will split and get lost in the drain.

AnRothar

When you bought the sewer rods was it a kit that included a "screw/hook"?

We had a similar issue where there was a build up of toilet tissue and stuff just after the u-bend.

We got an attachment for the pressure washer which we were able to insert into the pipe to clear the blockage.

This allowed us to break up the mass and slowly wash it out.

See Lidl brochure for 13/19 of April page 19.

AnRothar

Here is a link

https://www.lidl.ie/p/parkside-gardens/pressure-washer-gutter-pipe-cleaning-set/p36209?ar=0

The Continental Op

The pressure washer is a great idea but you can do a cheap job in some instances just with a hose pipe. When the end with a good flow on it hits the solids blocking the drain it slowly washes them away. Both however require a certain amount of drainage if they are to work without flooding the toilet if used from that end.

I'd be inclined to use a cheap wound wire toilet clearer, drain snake, from the bowl end first as that toll goes around the bend easily. Something like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-395010-Drain-Unblocker-Diameter/dp/B000O55KJC/

fritzelly

I've tried the hose pipe thing - there is drainage so it had no effect, I can throw a whole bucket of water into the toilet and it fills up to the brim nearly but then quickly drains out

Re the back garden, most of the cottages have extensions covering basically the whole back garden that's why I'm sceptical about the sewer line being there

The plumber said forget the auger, the toilet is not the problem

greasepalm

They would add an extension onto the sewer to redirect the flow

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478705#Comment_120478705

Well think about it the plumber could be wrong. Now if the blockage is outside and its draining away then it is unlikely ever to backup as far as the toilet. If the blockage is close to the bowl in or near the house then it will block up quickly then drain away.

If it is outside then rodding back towards the house from the drain you know about should fix it. You count the drain rods into the drain till you hit a blockage then you know how far the blockage is from the drain.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478705#Comment_120478705

That sounds like the blockage is in or near the u bend.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478705#Comment_120478705

A lot of the time people might build over the sewer, it isn't allowed but it's been done

Have you looked under the manhole cover you mentioned? Was there any signs of a blockage there?

There might be another access cover within the extension, is there a cutout section of the floor?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478691#Comment_120478691

I would agree that using a jetter from the toilet end could be a bad idea, I would always use it from the sewer end towards the toilet

I've used a similar type of auger to the one you linked (mine doesn't have the wind up casing). It did the job but I found the auger bit on the end kept catching on things and it was a pain to dislodge it

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120479012#Comment_120479012

Could it be that the fall on the pipe isn't great, so it needs a lot of pressure to get a decent outflow?

jmreire

I have a Karcher K4, and a high-pressure jetter hose, and when I do get a blockage issue ( usually caused by cheap toilet paper, which does not dissolve ) its enough to clear it. Occasionally, I have to use the rods to move a stubborn blockage though, and I always use vise grips to tighten the rods after screwing them together. As one poster mentioned, its not funny when you lose one or more rods. I have a "twister" and "half" semicircular plate attachments, but I rarely use the twister and I've never used the half plate, in case it gets stuck.

Water John

If when you fill the bowl, it fills up and then drains away, keep doing that . One would hope the water seeping through would eventually wear away the blockage.

Things to prevent it happening again. As above poster, use a fairly good quality toilet paper. If possible after a number 2, flush the toilet twice. I know one has to wait around for the cistern to fill but it's worth it. Basically sh1t floats, the one flush may not carry it all the way. The slope on the pipes may be incorrect, should be 1:60. Water may be running too fast or too slow in the sewer pipe.

Jim_Hodge

Also try pouring several buckets of water in the toilet in rapid succession. It has much more force than a flush and can often clear blockages near the toilet.

Odelay

Is caustic soda an option?

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120481207#Comment_120481207

It worked for me once. Just be careful!

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478705#Comment_120478705

If you have a bath in the cottage it might worth your while to fill it then let the water flush that pipe out to the mains and where it joins with the toilet

chooseusername

Old style cotton mop in a plastic shopping bag and plunge while flushing.

jmreire

There's a kind of pressurized plungeravailable , where the plunger has a pump attached. You pump it up, and when its pressurized, press the trigger, and WHOOOSH a powerful shot of high pressured air shoots down the bowl, sink etc.

Cerco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120478409#Comment_120478409

It is not unusual for sewer pipes to run out through the back garden on housing estates.

fritzelly

There's nothing in the back - all the cottages have a sewer access in the front - and it was full of crap, tried plunging it but only seems to be a pipe coming from the house in to access point and nothing going out. Will have to buy another rod to see if I can get it all the way to the house but now I'm confused where it runs to the main sewer

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484871#Comment_120484871

Can you give us an idiots guide to what you have done already?

It sounds like you are rodding back from outside and have run out of rods? How many do you have?

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484879#Comment_120484879

Tried rodding back towards the house and got lots of gurgling but was at the end of the two rods I have

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484914#Comment_120484914

Two rods is nothing. I've had to use 12 at times. What distance is it back to the house?

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484914#Comment_120484914

If you only have two rods you still have far to go. I'd have said ten was a minimum and most sets you buy are 12. Rods are old money so 3 ft long. You should be able to calculate the distance to the toilet and know roughly how many you need. Sets on Amazon run at around £25 or less for 12 rods and a worm and plunger. Think you need to spend the £25?

fritzelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484949#Comment_120484949

Its only about 8ft or so from the where the toilet is located to the drain access - will pick up another couple tomorrow

The Continental Op

What attachments do you have? A worm is the most useful but a rubber plunger can be handy when working down stream of the blockage to work back and forwards to create suction. Do take it easy though I've had a worm screwed hard into roots which can get embarrassing when it won't come out. If you hit something solid try not to screw the worm too hard into the blockage. Push the worm into the blockage give it a quarter turn the pull back while you keep turning clockwise. Keep that up rather than just screwing the worm in. If you are only using a max of 7 rods then also be careful not to be overly energetic, the less rods you use the more power you can transfer to the end. Its possible to hit a junction underground and use enough force on the rods to smash the pipe or open joints up (yeah I've done that too).

Safest option is to push up the rods with no attachments first and feel whats in the pipe a wheel attachment on the end can help. Its a bore but when you take them out unscrew each one in turn - all the while making sure the rods in the pipe are kept turning clockwise. Having a load of joined rods trashing around outside the pipe is a good way to loose one in the pipe. If you want to be really safe then try next with a rubber plunger before using the worm only if you have to. With the plunger work the full length of each new rod you attach back and forward a few times before adding another. I used to use a lot of old rods and attachments and most of the new worm attachments have a far too aggressive screw on the end that can easily get stuck. The scraper attachment (hinged half a disk) is also dangerous and can get stuck on badly made joints - if that happens keep tuning and try pulling back at every 1/4 of a turn.

Apologies if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs but we have had a few threads from people with rods lost down drains.

will pick up another couple tomorrow

Checkout the price of a full set often its the same price as buying few individual rods. For the price of 3 rods in screwfix you can buy a set of 12 on Amazon.

fritzelly

I'm still stuck trying to find the main sewer access - the one outside where the toilet is is connected to the toilet (after rodding its pulling water out of the toilet) and gutter drain (water is coming up there when rodding) but is one way only to the hatch with no pipe going anywhere else - just a pipe connecting to the hatch, there is another access point outside the kitchen but the outflow is a dead end after a few feet.

The only one I can find in the back garden (which just serves as a drain for a concrete sheds guttering) just has a pipe going back towards the house

Cerco

Look for puddling around the access cover and follow your nose. Sewer blockages usually give a bad odour.

Are you sure the issue is not with the toilet?

Sometimes slow emptying of the bowl is caused by insufficient flush. Does the cistern refill normally?

spurious

There are a number of strangely addictive videos on YouTube covering unblocking drains.

Seems tree roots and wet wipes are the biggest culprits.

Jim_Hodge

Still sounds like the toilet rather than the drains to me.

The Continental Op

Has the toilet always had this problem? I'm wondering if it was installed properly?

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120498124#Comment_120498124

Lidl toilet roll is the worst offender for blocking toilets around here.

Cerco

Had a problem with the toilet not emptying. Another problem was slow filling of the cistern. When the toilet did not empty we had to wait till the cistern filled up again before a second flush. Often had to plunge it to clear. Drains as clean as a whistle.

I bought a diaphragm for the inlet valve, €2, and replaced it. The cistern now fills normally but the flush is greatly improved.

Had not noticed the bad flush probably because it got worse over time.

No more blocking, everything goes down first time…..no sh1t 😋

fritzelly

Well the council came out and cleared a blockage in a drain several doors down the street and that cleared it (seems wasn't just me with the problem) - also today a load of vans/people were out doing some kind of major clearing of the drains along the whole street

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613305#Comment_120613305

It's amazing the amount of people that will live in sh!t and take no notice.

Good result for you.