Hue/Google Home and re-wiring

BoardsMember

We're rewiring shortly and i have a few questions im hoping Hue enthusiasts will be able to help with:

Switches or smart switches...Some situations are better not having switches, but rather having either timed on/off (porch light, for example) or sensor based (hall, stairs, landing).

Do people put in switches anyway for the above? Or smart switches....and if smart, what type?

Generally, hall would have 3 gang switch (porch, hall, landing), landing 2 gang (hall, landing). I've Hue dimmer switches now which have up to 5 options. Maybe just use these and just have wall plates in case I ever want to put normal switches in? Or are there nicer looking smart switches I could wire in that would be better?

The other thing I am unsure of is how to control a non hue led light strip in the ceiling. I'd like to be able to turn it on/off via Hue scene, hue sensor. Is the best thing to emable this to have it plugged into Hue enabled plug (innr or similar)?

For bedrooms we have hue as the main light, handy for voice control on/off/dim. Anyone car to recommend cheap-ish smart switches for on/off/dim?

I'm not sure if the budget will stretch to Hue GU10s for kitchen, but if it does am I right in thinking that if I get Gen2 GU10s a standard fitting will be fine?

BoardsMember

Ok, have done some more reading.

I think smart switches are the way forward where not smart bulbs, and vice versa. No need to use both for a single fitting or use case.

I am thinking smart switch for kitchen/dining with the innr GU10s which do softer whites, much cheaper than the Hue. And innr seem to lose connection so better to have power on/off via smart switch so they are rebooted often. Assuming innr bulbs can be used with Hue scenes and with Hue sensor then its all good.

For hall/porch/landing I think I'll use Hue dimmer in conjunction with sensor. I might put the Hue dimmer on top of a 3 gang switch so I have a manual override.

Nelbert

If you're doing a full rewire I'd recommend smart switches with momentary physical buttons. Potentially with smart modules (like Shelly or similar).

If you're thinking of how to build it all around Hue you're limiting the potential of what you can do....

I went smart bulbs everywhere and am in the process of complimenting this with smart switches and modules.

You can eliminate 2 way wiring for hallways etc. As it actually makes moving to smart modules / switches slightly more head scratching at first.

Where you don't need dimming or white warmth choice stick with standard LEDs with a smart switch. Where you want dimming etc. Go smart bulb and smart switch.

The mix combo is great. My bedside switch is a good example. The 1st gang on the relay is attached to my own smart bulblight but is not directly controlled by the button. Tap the 1st button light toggles on / off. Double tap max brightness. Hold lowers brightness in 10% steps. 2nd button does the same but for my wife's smart bulb. 3rd button controls the ceiling bulbs.

Triple tap of each button reserved for specific things i.e. for my switch 1st button sets both bedside lights to 2% or if they are already at 2% turns them off. Triple tap of third button runs the lights out automation for the house which sets all the lights and TVs downstairs to off.

All controlled centrally with Home Assistant with a ZigBee stick for the bulbs and ESPHome based smart switches...

Wife was always a fan of the motion sensor lights for hall, stairs, landing, utility and bathroom lights but the smart switch rollout has gained positive feedback on top as it gives "traditional" control.

Importantly this approach keeps your bulbs powered on all the time which is good for your mesh network while still allowing you to turn the power off if you need to power cycle a bulb (Hue bulbs the most common offenders Vs the IKEA tradfris).

BoardsMember

What would I use Shelly for if all lights are either smart bulbs or standard bulbs via smart switches? I'm not sure what it gives me. Have you any examples of where it adds real value?

I need to read up, I don't know what half the stuff you're talking about is!

What i do know is the more tech the more can be unreliable and the more herself with blow the lid if there isn't a switch to fix things again.

Hue is simple and popular. And where not Hue, to keep costs down, then use Smart switches (kitchen/dining spots). Then some automation via Hue (porch on/off), sensor via Hue (2 should do).

Nelbert

Shelly can be put in to detached mode.... so controlling the actual power and sending a signal to toggle the smart bulbs on / off can be seperate.

So your smart bulbs can be controlled from a traditional switch.... Which when you get smart bulbs in significant numbers becomes important as visitors (or wives...) don't fully "appreciate" all your automations....

Hue bulbs are multiples of the price of some other bulbs.

If I could do it again I'd have put the smart switches in on day 1 to work with the smart bulbs.... Being able to control the smart bulbs with a traditional looking switch is big for wife approval factor.... And is better for a house wide mesh network as the bulbs stay powered.

BoardsMember

Any example(s) of what you're calling a traditional looking switch?

If u mean a smart switch I'm not sure I understand why I would benefit from a smart switch controlling a smart bulb, I was going for either/or.

I'm not worried about mesh, I'll have excellent WiFi.

Nelbert

A normal switch with a module in behind. Or a full blown smart switch with integrated relay.

You mentioned Hue. I assumed ZigBee.... It works off a mesh particularly for bulbs further away from the hub.

Summary question: what use is a smart bulb if someone has flicked it off at the switch?

A smart switch (or normal with module behind) used with smart bulbs allows you to have the look and user experience of normal switches with the added functionality of smart bulbs (dimming, colour etc).

BoardsMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120460614#Comment_120460614

Thanks for bearing with me! Answer to your question - no use in a smart bulb with no power to it.

Can you link me an example of "a module behind" a normal light switch? I like this option, it gives flexibility for smart or not smart bulbs.

But I'm wondering how this works from a power/wiring perspective...if normal switch is off then the power is turned off to the smart module and presumably the bulb. So if a smart bulb it wont work until the normal switch is on, right?

Nelbert

The shelly plus 1pm (https://www.shelly.cloud/en-ie/products/product-overview/shelly-plus-1-pm-2-pack/shelly-plus-1-pm ) I use on some single gang lightswitches (they any aul regular light switch).

Recently picked up a bunch of these (https://www.athom.tech/blank-1/eu-key-button-switch-for-esphome) which are basically switch and module in one.

Wiring wise the module or smart switch is connected to the live coming in to the switch (i.e. the always live) and neutral (standard to be at switch in rewires now). So the module always has power and has an output which you'd connect to the switched live of circuit.

In the case of the module the switch then becomes an input, you've a choice to have it simply toggle the output on or off or detached mode which lets you just detect whether the switch has been flipped and do something (like toggle the smart bulb instead of the power to it).

I like the smart switches above as I actually have both things working.... If wifi is on and the smart switch is connected to my Home Assistant setup then it triggers an automation to toggle the smart bulb... As a failsafe if the Home Assistant server isn't available it toggles the power to the light i.e. reverts to just acting like a dumb lightswitch.

If you've not looked in to it already some reading on home assistant would be worthwhile. Rewiring the house is a significant investment!

My office wall switch controls the smart bulb in the lamp in the corner, ceiling (with fallback mentioned above) and the window blind (up, down, stop).... Herself rolled her eyes at first but the key is consistency to the smart switches.... Bedside both do the same (but are mirrors of each other so that the closest button when you are in bed is for 'your' lamp). The office and kids bedrooms are all - lamp, ceiling, blind controls consistent in setup. Main thing being a simple single press toggles the light (so works for any user without thinking....).

BoardsMember

Thanks again for all the info. Agreed, re-wiring is a big investment!

We use Google home rather than home assistant. I think I am just going to keep this simple:

• Hall & landing - Hue Smart bulbs with Hue sensors (have them already). Traditional 2 gang switch. If someone switches off so be it, I wont have access on the App or via Google home
• Porch - Hue smart bulb. Automation (sunset on). Traditional switch.
• Open plan kitchen/dinging that has led slight strip, spots and task lighting. I'll probably use smart switches here, maybe a sensor too. I may go for innr spots (cheaper than hue) so I can have warm white.
• Other living room(s): re-use my hue dimmer switches with existing hue bulbs for mood lighting (lamps etc).

I like your implementation of the above switches, i.e. they work as dumb switches if not connected to wifi and trigger automation if wifi is available. I'd like to keep everything Hue compatible so I'll look for something like the

I'll get neutral wire and deeper boxes where I might need smart, now or later so I am more or less future proofed.

Nelbert

Home Assistant would be a replacement for the Hue Hub not Google home....

Yes, meant to flag the deeper back boxes - insist on 45mm deep (deepest available I think).

The other thing to flag in my lessons learned pile is no 3 gang switches in a single width back box. They are a painful experience to swap to smart switches or modules due to reduced options (most of the better modules only do doubles) and space to work with within the back box.

BoardsMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120461190#Comment_120461190

Thanks again. Stupidly thought Home Assistant was Amazon Alexa and not a substitute for Hue Hub, thanks for clarifying.

BoardsMember

I'm starting to realise that, like you said, building around Hue is quite limiting. Especially if I want scenes that cover lights of all types, like led strip plus spots plus bulbs.

I may play around with Home Assistant and see how I get on. I'm reasonably comfortable with Tech, but was hoping for a more simple solution, hence Hue.

Nelbert

If you are comfortable with tech the world is your oyster.... I took the standard config templates for the athom switches linked above and create a custom yaml in ESPHome for what I wanted (single, double, triple and hold presses).

I started out with a Hue Hub.... A distant memory....

BoardsMember

Thanks again for all your help and patience @Nelbert

BoardsMember

I presume innr spots might be a good option, dimmable and soft white, much cheaper than Hue.

Any recommendations for led strips? Really only need soft light/mood light from it so maybe just need a bog standard one and stick a smart module on for on/off functionality as long as it comes on at last used colour setting.

I'm already eyeing up an odroid c4 to run Home Assistant on. I'm hoping this does not end up in divorce!

Nelbert

I have all IKEA tradfri bulbs bar 2 hue bulbs (which are the only bulbs that need the occasion power cycle). Had a pair of Innr smart plugs but one of them was very flaky with staying connected to they are retired.

I initially had 12v led ZigBee controller but have now swapped it for WS2815 led strips controlled by one of the Athom WLED controllers (same site I linked to above for the smart switch)....

The WS2815 strip is individually addressable so you can have really tacky but also really subtle lighting effects depending on your taste. WLED controllers are auto discovered and can be integrated very easily in to home assistant meaning you could a ZigBee motion sensor trigger the WLED controller via a home assistant automation.

As long as you're aware you're on the edge of a rabbit hole you're grand. Lots of satisfaction to be had from setting up complex (logic wise) automations etc. But it's obviously not for everyone.

BoardsMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120462606#Comment_120462606

Thanks a mill! I do feel like I'm at a sliding doors moment alright!