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No of firearms question

  • 05-04-2023 3:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭


    Hi folks, if a silencer is a firearm, and nv is a firearm then does that mean if you have both plus a rifle you have 3 firearms?



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭freddieot


    Good question. Big cans of worms as far as I can see with very grey answers to questions like that. Logically you only have one firearm but logic has nothing to do with it in this country.

    Also, does it make any difference if you just ticked the two boxes on your initial application or whether you subsequently requested a mod in writing and then subsequently requested an nv.

    Also, if you obtain a rifle and an nv. Then sell the rifle but keep the NV, are you in possession of a firearm, without a cert at that point. It can't transform from a restricted firearm into something else.

    Also, if nv equals restricted firearm then one would suspect that lots of people have unknowingly breached the safe storage SI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Given that each firearm is required to have its own licence, I don't think it would be classed as three firearms as both 'accessories' will be listed along with your rifle on the licence (assuming that you have permission for them printed on your licence).

    That said, I wouldn't bet my life on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,922 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Riddle me this?

    Lots of guys shoot airsoft and do night missions. As airsoft is not a firearm, if they purchase a NV/thermal scope do they now have a restricted firearm in the NV/T unit itself as it is "weapons mouuntable",and does this now transform your airsoft into a restricted firearm? Inquiring minds want to know.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    ^^^^

    Interesting !!

    Just checked the Airsoft for sale forum and came across a package including a suppressor AND NV.

    Given that Airsoft is "non licensable", I wonder does the owner have an FAC for the suppressor and authorisation for the NV, or do they need it ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭freddieot


    Interesting if one citizen, with no backgound checks, could own a firearm mountable NV without the requirement for a cert. Yet a fully checked out, licensed firearms holding citizen could not possess same unless they had a restricted cert.

    I'm assuming the suppressor in your example is not actually real, just one of those mock ones.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭freddieot


    Another twist. If an RFD sells an NV to a person who does not have a restricted cert, have they unlawfully supplied a firearm to a person who is unlicensed ?

    If so, how does this tally with the fact that there are websites in other EU states that you can buy from and no unlawful activity takes place, or does it.

    In the same vein, should it only be a Restricted RFD that can stock firearm nountable NV etc...

    Pity there is no committee or something in place to go through the existing laws and review and straighten them out and make them understandable to those of us who just want to follow them are who are not members of the judiciary or have a firm of lawyers on retention. That would be a good idea. That would be time well spent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,523 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    Loads of anomalies.

    For instance, a Pard 007 is perfectly legal for a firearms dealer to sell you, and for you to possess while birdwatching (e.g. owls at night).

    Put it on a firearm and you(currently) need authorisation for it and if the FEC recommendations are passed, you will need a restricted licence for it, or possibly for the gun.



  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭freddieot


    Another twist. If I can currenly purchase a firearm mountable NV from an EU website and I don't need a firearm import licence, how could it ever be considered a restricted firearm or an unrestricted firearm in it's own right.

    If the regulations / definitions are cemented to make them firearms, based on any scenarios or usage, surely this is contrary to EU law, i.e. to licence a piece of glass...I know each state can to a good extent form their own approach to firearms control but a piece of glass is not a firearm, not yet in the rest of the EU anyway.

    There could not be a scenario allowed to arise where a German citizen for example could break irish law just by providing an Ireland based citizen with an NV scope. Would they be extradited here to face charges. If the buyer here was prosecuted then it would follow that there could be a ripple backwards effect.

    Contrary, if no import licence is required, then it can never become a firearm.

    As I understood it, the EU requires that member states construct their laws coherently and in such a format that they can be clearly interpreted by the average citizen. I doubt by the way that the average solicitor could categorically answer some of the questions being raised on this issue.

    It certainly should not lead to a guessing game. It should not lead to 'trap like' situations where law abiding citizens might land on the wrong side of the law through confusion caused by inconcise wording of domestic legislation.

    I don't have NV by the way, or would need it, I just see the whole mess as typical of the system we have to endure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭dalalada


    Realistically NV and thermal shouldn't be in the firearms act. End of. Look at the mess it has created ffs. If they just left it alone the way it was but noooo....



  • Registered Users Posts: 923 ✭✭✭freddieot


    A game changer. Now if I can just get these past Customs ...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    That's what happens when you have people writing firearms laws who know sod all about firearms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,922 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Three things you are assured of in life in Ireland,Death, taxes and very stupid gun laws!

    No wonder the FEC referred this all to the Attorney general. That will give poor Mr Murphy a headache over Easter he doesn't need.

    Esp when all this is added. Glad to see the pennies are finally hitting in this particular deep well.Now ,all we have to do is get this translated over to the Govt types,and give them a simple solution to all this mess they created. IE take it out of the legislation completely,and if you want one for your firearm,make it a liscenseable accessory to the gun[s] as the case may be. It is ridiculous that an electronic device is classified as a firearm in the 1st place,as you cant exactly load ammo into it and fire it.Even the "weapons mountable" is a joke nowadays with Q/D setups,it can be on and off your rifle mounts or scope within 4 seconds.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,922 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    There could not be a scenario allowed to arise where a German citizen for example could break irish law just by providing an Ireland-based citizen with an NV scope. Would they be extradited here to face charges. If the buyer here was prosecuted then it would follow that there could be a ripple backwards effect.

    Unless it was a particular model of NV exported from the US to Germany as a "favoured trading state" and subject to an ITAR end user cert or a prohibition of sales outside Germany.Then no. Plus the Germans would be pretty hot on that type of paperwork trail.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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