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N11 Foster Avenue Traffic Lights Questions

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  • 05-04-2023 8:29am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭


    Hi,

    There is a new sequence of traffic lights at the junction of Foster Avenue and the N11.

    First sequence:

    Then it changes to (apologies for the poorly drawn sign as I didn't take another photo):

    From a rules of the road perspective, is it only cars that are allowed to proceed directly through the junction on the green arrow?



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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    that's odd; i don't know the answer but i don't see what would be the issue with proceeding straight on if motorists are allowed proceed straight on?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    They must have made a mistake as the whole point of the straight ahead only was to let cyclists at the lights go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    I noticed that the other day too. As a cyclist that junction has been a pain in the hoop for years. They've managed to go to the trouble of making it worse. I often used to take the main lane just to avoid left-hookers on the solid green light, this new sequence is even more of a reason to ditch the bike lane.


    Why can our road engineers get nothing right when it comes to cycling infrastructure? IT'S NOT THAT HARD!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Victorian House


    Yeah, I can see the point of a red cyclist light if the left turn light is green for motorists. Obviously I'd like to spend as little time waiting at lights as possible but I would also have a concern if I was stopped waiting for the cycle lights and another cyclist isn't expecting it and potential for a collision.



  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Statler


    If it's like the lights at the Leeson St corner of Stephen's Green there's an induction loop sensor in the road like there is for cars, so the green bike light only activates if a bike is at the lights. Even if you get a green bike light it doesn't last long at all, most of the time the bike light is going to be red. I've also found when I've stopped on the red light that (some) cars who are turning left slow or stop to let me go straight on, they obviously don't notice or understand the red bike light.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    It's another case of ceding priority - I've been taking the road on that section unless the entire junction has a red. Also, the bit behind the bus stop can be dodgy with phone zombies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,501 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Why is the cycle lane even on the left of the left turning lane instead of moving into the middle of the left turn and straight lanes in advance of the junction, really bad design, nevermind the lights adding to the stupidity



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,924 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Firstly you'd need 2 lanes then as some cyclists might be going left. Then you'd have an arrangement as seen on the N11 and elsewhere where the middle cycle lane is routinely referred to as a "murder strip" due to the conflict with cars moving into the filter lane:

    the issue with cycle lanes is if they're built to safest best practice, you end up with more separate movements at each junction and even if the cycle lane is given a decent level of priority (which it won't) it's still going to be slower than cycling on the road. And then if you do cycle on the road you get drivers blasting their horns and waving their arms at you for not using the cycle lane.

    Having said all that, I can't think why the cycle lane light would be red when cars can go straight, where's the conflict? Cycle lane should only have a red when the left filter is green or the pedestrian lights are green. Maybe the pedestrian lights are green across the top of Foster Ave and it's to stop cyclists turning left? In which case it's badly designed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    in the second photo - is there a pedestrian light on fosters avenue which is obscured in that photo?

    perhaps there's no left turn allowed there if there is one (and it's green) - but since the bike light is general (and not split into 'straight on' and 'left' lije the main lights are), it must stay red to prevent cyclists from turning left and crossing the ped light.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Firstly you'd need 2 lanes then as some cyclists might be going left

    this seems to have been catered for (in a ham fisted way) previously, but not visible in the photos above - by sending left turning cyclists onto the path?




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,243 ✭✭✭Mav11




  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    Can we acknowledge the fact that many and probably most cyclists just go right through red lights when it suits them please. And right through pedestrians trying to cross in a lot of cases. They are a menace and now the Greens are in think they own the road.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭homer911


    Contact DLR, that's ridiculous



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    hello and welcome to the cycling forum. please read the charter, especially point 9 about negativity towards cyclists. you're welcome to discuss the topic at hand, but not use this as an opportunity to rant about cyclists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Just to say the old design wasn't great at this junction - rather than a bike red light and a green left light, it perhaps should've been a flashing amber for both when vehicles were allowed to proceed left? Cautions the cyclist going straight on while not ceding priority, doesn't give automatic "right" to the vehicle turning left (and also signals caution).



  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭ath262


    the 'no left turn' traffic light setting is beacuse the predestrain lights are green at the bottom of Foster Avenue

    this only activates if a pedestrian request button is pressed



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,924 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu




  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Victorian House


    I'll keep an eye on this tomorrow and give an update. My recollection is that there was a separate cycling light at the crossing and it was amber.

    The light shown above is a cycling light:

    My initial question was regarding the laws around cycling lights - are they legal stops for cyclists or can we pick and choose? Or just legal stops if you're choosing the cycle lane and the main lights take priority if you are cycling on the roadway?

    I remember a cyclist telling me before that the sign on the East Link Bridge was unlawful about no-cyclists so I didn't know if we can always choose to be part of the road.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there was a 'cyclists dismount' sign on the east link at one point, but IIRC it was removed after a member of the public brought it to the attention of the council, it had no legal standing.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I've taken the lane here since it was laid out like this, insanity to go in the bike lane if you are carrying any speed. Plenty of cars jump the red as well if they think there are no cyclists who are conveniently coming along in their (and I hate the excuse) blind spot. If the light is green I just slot in line with the bus lane and if its red I just come through between the bus lane and the next lane.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Having witnessed it this morning, my days of ever using it are done. Essentially, a green light for cyclists comes on at same time as straight-ahead traffic light. Then the cycling light turns red while the left turn vehicle light goes green(and the straight-ahead traffic light stays green). So back to ceding priority, only now its even more dangerous as you have cyclists on the bike lane (who are either used to the old sequence or just see the big green 'straight-ahead' arrow and miss the small bicycle traffic light) who continue straight through the junction while the left-turn vehicle light has turned green.

    For me, not worth the risk or inconvenience of using it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,924 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    that's the same arrangement as Temple Hill/Monkstown Road on the Rock Bypass and it's a PITA (it's probably worse there as straight on and left turn are green for the road at the same time and get 90% of the green time). I'm not sure how else you can do it though, as they have to give green time to left turning traffic and they have to make the cycle lane red to accommodate it.

    If it was in the Netherlands the cycle lane would swing left and cross Foster Ave back from the junction at a zebra crossing, but even there if it was a very busy junction they'd have to use lights.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Victorian House


    Yes, I took another photo this morning here - after the full red light sequence, it changed to the following:

    I think my situation yesterday must have occured when a pedestrian pressed the crossing across Foster Avenue which triggered the cycle lights remaining at red.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,119 ✭✭✭homer911


    I notice on the opposite side of the road, outside the hotel, they have introduced traffic lights for the cars at the pedestrian crossing. This is a help, I have been cycling south in the past and gone through this just as pedestrians have stepped out in front me (sorry, no pic)



  • Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭LeoD


    The design layout you are talking about is usually referred to as a 'murder strip'. As you can guess by the name, it's not considered very safe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,971 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I found that the cycle green light wasn't triggering for me. I was left sitting waiting for two full cycles of lights, and eventually had to break the lights. I had taken the main vehicle lane past the bus stop, then cut into the bike lane close to the lights. Maybe the trigger is a bit further back?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I just stay in the lane or to the right of cars in the turning/bus lane. Going back into the bike lane seems pointless until after the junction. You can go through the junction for both the straight ahead and straight ahead/turning light so loads more time as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,501 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Never heard that term before in my life and there are a huge number of them over here in my locale that work perfectly well, I've never felt unsafe using them on a near daily basis. (In NZ)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,971 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yeah, you're probably as well off in the middle lane.



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