E.U. SURVEY - review of birds on the Open Seasons

J.R.

E.U. SURVEY - review of birds on the Open Seasons 

https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/BirdsOSOReview2023IE?fbclid=IwAR3dmKiBbeO5XvHEDOML24CZsZu25pr3N1f7WppFDsTjB40ZNbcaCiiYw0o

Grizzly 45

Same as this perhaps? https://www.independent.ie/news/environment/hunting-of-wild-birds-to-be-reviewed-amid-concerns-over-declining-populations-42400126.html?fbclid=IwAR1zJGsSdyt2lwnu6rpwsmjCxljlUwprBI401Tw6FuuBT7N85bEEiD3bhxE

J.R.

I did the survey,

It's a biased survey.

Most of the questions in the survey are double edged.

Some are very loaded against shooting especially question 35

There is no differentiation between breeding native species and over-wintering birds.

No matter how you answer any of them, they can be turned around and used against shooting.

OpenYourEyes

I agree it is a biased survey against shooting, with some leading questions, some poorly constructed questions and some completely irrelevant questions.

What do you mean when say there's no differentiation between breeding and wintering birds?

Grizzly 45

And its also an EU survey, going by the addresses and senders, not an Irish govt survey.So who is asking these questions?its not Noonan ,its some uber beuracrat in Brussels again. tie this in with the lead shot ban,Ireland being almost entirely a wetland...You could be forgiven for being paranoid.

J.R.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392949#Comment_120392949

What do you mean when say there's no differentiation between breeding and wintering birds?

I probably worded it badly...rushing....

what I meant was that all the birds are bundled into one long list...no differentiation between migratory birds that overwinter here ...of which we in Ireland have no control over their native habitat and breeding conditions in their country of origin....to the other end of the spectrum where there are pheasants & ducks bred in their thousands by the good work done by clubs and individuals...........to woodpigeons which are both a "game bird" and a pest on the vermin list that can cause untold damage.....but in this survey, they are all bundled into one list with questions such as should the season be shortened ? etc.

OpenYourEyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393080#Comment_120393080

I agree the list of birds all lumped together is frankly ridiculous – native overwintering birds, widespread ‘pest' species of completely different family and ecology to everything else (e.g. Woodpigeon), non-native introduced/released species (e.g. Pheasant, RLPartridge), invasive species (Ruddy Duck, Canada Goose), and even Greylag Geese should be divided between Icelandic migrants and resident/feral birds (given that they are split like that for the Open Seasons Order itself!).

The fact that there’s no box to tick if a season for a species should be expanded, or on the basis of red/green lists and population increase/decreases, if any species should be added to the Open Seasons Order, is quite telling.

Re: the migratory birds that overwinter here, in all legislation and international agreements we have an obligation to protect and enhance their populations as they spend a considerable part of their year here, and what we do will affect their numbers too – whether that’s wetland habitat destruction or harvesting or whatever else (forestry, aquaculture, water pollution etc etc). It does raise an interesting point with regards species that are declining here but doing ok at flyway level. We have very few Scaup left in ROI and they’re still declining, but they’re doing ok internationally as far as I can see. So, harvesting in ROI will likely speed up their loss from ROI, but internationally make no tangible difference to them. So would we rather keep Scaup around in Ireland as long as we can? Or are we ok with losing them sooner rather than later, safe in the knowledge that internationally the species is fine.

…of course this questionnaire doesn’t leave room for any of these sort of nuances or discussions.

Grizzly 45

Re Canada geese...Have they ever been seen here in Ireland in any significant numbers? Apart from the odd "tourist" birds that got lost someplace?Strange that an Irish survey would be asking about a totally non-native bird on a hunting list?

OpenYourEyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395582#Comment_120395582

We get the odd genuine migrant in the north-west in Mayo, Sligo, Donegal etc.

Otherwise though, there are well-establish breeding flocks in Cavan/Leitrim/Monaghan totalling a couple of hundred, which would be feral/released birds rather than of wild origin.

It's the same with Greylag Goose - the feral/released flocks are potentially more of a cause of conservation problems rather than being of conservation concern themselves, so most of the questions on the list aren't relevant to them and they should be treated completely separately. If anything, the season should be extended for them, but there's no box to tick for that!

Grizzly 45

Thanks.Didnt know we had these flying psychopaths here in Ireland.Very aggressive during mating and with their young in tow.

berettaman

From NARGC

The above Survey closes at 5 p.m. on Wednesday next, May 3rd and seemingly it is attracting an enormous response

from those who would be averse to hunting and whose complete agenda might well be to close us down !

 Accordingly, it is absolutely crucial that as many hunting people, their family members and anyone else you may know

of, completes this Survey before the closing date. The attachment is from the NARGC National Chairman and we would

welcome if you would forward this message to all who share our interest in maintaining the current Open Seasons Order

without any further limitation or restriction and who will complete this online Survey.

 

If we do not support this cause, then we deserve everything we get so please respond to this appeal immediately.

 

The link is:   https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/BirdsOSOReview2023IE

 

Thank you for your attention.

Saw that Birdwatch are encouraging their members to fill in this biased survey. We need to get our lads active on this too.

I heard NARGC met with powers that be and gave this survey a hammering.

Berettaman

J.R.

https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/BirdsOSOReview2023IE

THe link above seems faulty - hope this works

Grizzly 45

DisclaimerThe European Commission is not responsible for the content of questionnaires created using the EUSurvey service - it remains the sole responsibility of the form creator and manager. The use of EUSurvey service does not imply a recommendation or endorsement, by the European Commission, of the views expressed within them.

Really interesting that disclaimer.Gotta ask who created this form and managed it then in Noonan's dept. IOW you can create a survey as a govt dept or whatever, that is sanctioned by the EU.Put whatever questions you want in it and word them however you want to to get your desired result.

BSA International

Fill in biased survey, they reckon we agree with their agenda (as survey is rigged), they shaft us, they claim they consulted us, and on & on it goes ...... 😞

Eddie B

Forwarded

Urgent - Urgent - Urgent

 

The NPWS Online Consultation on the 

'Open Seasons Order' closes on the 3rd of May 2023

Only 1 Week left to complete it.

This is a bad, poorly constructed consultation for such an important topic. All such online consultations we know have limits, but this one is particularly poor and is not a proper mechanism for addressing such a complex issue as the Open Season Order for Ireland.

The NARGC wrote to Minister Noonan on this matter. In that letter we asked the Minister to withdraw from this consultation. Minister Noonan refused to withdraw from the consultation.

Last Friday, 21.4.2023, the NPWS brought the NARGC and all the other interested groups together on this issue for what they called "A stakeholders dialogue meeting on a review of the Open Season Order".

It was a good and positive meeting but like a lot of meetings in recent times, it is difficult to know what will emerge from it. Presentations were given on how best practice can be applied to any perceived problem involving wildlife matters. Details of how Ireland and the EU need to manage such issues were presented and discussed. 

The shortcomings of the online consultation were discussed. The NPWS insist on going ahead with it, as they want the 'public viewpoint’ on these issues. They did admit that anyone, anywhere in the world could complete it, and the questions were aimed at gaining public knowledge in a general manner on the issues. They did accept and agree that the engagement with the stakeholders should be relied on more than the online consultation by the NPWS. It is also important to note that changes should only be made after collaboration and consultation with key stakeholders, and proper scientific based data has been submitted and scrutinised. History can tell us that the removal of any species from the Open Season Order has not contributed in any format to the survival of that species. Examples being the Curlew and the Native Grey Partridge. Contrary to what we would be expected to believe, only for the hard work and dedication of NARGC affiliated Clubs, these species would most lightly be extinct in Ireland. 

They informed us that 650 people have already completed the online consultation.

We have come across some recent circulars from other NGO`s urging their members to complete the survey. We know that they are most unlikely to be promoting our interests !

The NARGC feels on balance our members should complete this online survey / consultation immediately.

Most of the questions are self-explanatory.

You can input little narrative, so have neat short sentences.

Question 16 - other - put in releasing birds, Duck Nest Tubes, Control nests/fledging from predators. etc.

Question 34 – No  (Should the open season be changed)

The narrative in the last question under 'other' is short also.

Click the link below to complete the survey.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/3a126-public-consultation-on-the-open-seasons-order-launched-by-minister-noonan/

Please complete this survey straight away and try get as many of your fellow Club Members / family members and anyone you know to complete it as well. Anybody can engage in this Survey, not just Gun Club personnel.

 

John Butler

Chairman NARGC 

Eddie B

https://www.buzz.ie/news/irish-news/bird-shooting-licences-endangered-29902501

Grizzly 45

Written by an enviro hack journalist from NI with an agenda and a crusade to shave the planet going by all her articles. Notice how it's top loaded with all the anti orgs getting their side in first?Only one response from a shooting org to five antis....Biased ...Much?