Turning off water flow to toilet cisterns?

Geuze

There are a few problems with cisterns in house, built 2004.

(1) condensation on outside front panel of cistern tank, and inflow pipe

(2) trickle of water from cistern to WC pan constantly

(3) one cistern doesn't fill

Before I ask more substantial questions, any video on YouTube suggests that there are isolation valves on the flow pipes to the cistern, allowing the water flow to be stopped.

I don't see any valve on any feed pipe to cistern?

Do they exist in Ireland?

Where can the water flow to upstairs cisterns be stoppped? In the hotpress?

THANKS

zg3409

If you are asking these basic questions maybe best to get a plumber in to fix all toilets.

Condensation is 100% normal with all toilets and cannot be fixed. Insulating tank in attic might help.

In terms of isolating if the toilet has been replaced in the last 10 years there may be a metal flexible pipe feeding it with a tiny valve that can be turned off with a flat screwdriver.

While there is valves in the hot press I would not close them as it can lead to air locks. A common thing it to tie up ball cock in attic and run taps until dry. I would not recommend this either as you may create air locks and the toilet cistern will still hold a lot of water. If you do get taps dry you can flush toilet 3 or 3 times to try empty reservoir but you probably need parts replaced which may involve taking toilet apart with risk of rusty bolts, flooding the bathroom and new parts being metric while old parts are Irish non metric.

It's not a big job for a plumber but it's a days work and trips to hardware stores for you and it sounds like you are not aware of different standards and problems you may have.

Often at the Irish water meter on the street is a 1/4 turn shutoff, bit then you still need to empty tank in attic and tank at toilet. Air locks alone let alone not being able to turn back on water due to leaks or having wrong parts or tools would recommend me to try steer you away.

cnocbui

Hotpress is most likely location. If there is a tank in the attic then likely there will be two pipes from it to the hotpress, one for cold water and one going to the hot W cylinder. Each of these feeds should have a shutoff valve on it. Closing the cold feed should do it.

Geuze

Thanks.

I looked up the condensation, and as you say, it appears to be fairly common.

Strange, I had never heard of or experienced it before.

There is a flexible metal pipe to each cistern, but I can't see any tiny valve.

I will go back at it tomorrow.

the_amazing_raisin

Tbh, you might not need to shut the water off to fix those

Condensation on the cistern is normal, you're pumping almost freezing water in there so the cistern is going to be cold. After a shower you'll probably get a lot of condensation. Wipe it off with a rag every so often and keep the room well ventilated

The toilet constantly draining into the pan could be one of two things.

The ballcock to stop the toilet filling might be broken or jammed, in which case the cistern will drain through the overflow into the toilet pan. If you can free up the ballcock then it should stop filling, but if it's broken then you'll need to replace the mechanism, which does require the water to be shut off

Alternatively the flush mechanism might not be closing properly. I think most toilets from then use a plunger mechanism, basically when you're looking into the cistern, there's a plunger at the bottom of the mechanism in the middle which covers the drain to the pan. When you flush the toilet, the plunger lifts and water drains, then after a few seconds the plunger drops and stops the flow

Often something can get in the way of the plunger, or gunk can build up at the edge and stop it from closing fully. Try reaching down under the mechanism to see if anything is jammed in there

The cistern that isn't filling could be another jammed ballcock valve, just it's jammed closed. Alternatively it could be an airlock in the pipe, if the cold tap in that bathroom spits water and makes a rattling noise then that's signs of air locks. If you've a hot/cold mixer tap, you can wrap a towel tightly around the spout and turn both hot and cold on. Try to squeeze the towel against the spout with your hand to not let any water out. With a bit of luck you'll backfeed hot water into the cold tap and force any air back into the attic tank and out of the system. Just mind the pressure if it's a fast flowing tap, you could end up soaked!

Another problem might be low pressure, the water just might not have enough pressure to flow to that cistern. It's possible the leaking toilet is preventing enough water getting to the other one, but there could also just be a major design flaw with your house. I've been in a few houses from that era where to toilet on the top floor didn't fill. You'll probably need to plumber to figure that one out if it isn't something simple

Regarding isolation valves, AFAIK they're pretty standard now on all the appliances, but back in the good old Celtic Tiger days plumbers didn't bother a lot of the time. Gotta make as much profit as possible after all...

As others said, you'll need to isolate the cold feed further back. Hot press is the typical place to find the valves, or possibly near the attic tank

If you're in luck the valves are labelled, otherwise you'll probably be better getting a plumber and let them figure it out

Worst case you could also turn the mains water off, it's often under the kitchen sink and should be a brass fitting that looks a bit like a garden tap

Once you've shut the water off you'll need to drain out the system. Open the tap closest to the toilet you want to fix until the water stops running. Then flush the toilet a few times until the cistern is dry

You should then be able to do whatever repairs you need without causing a flood

Since you're working on the toilet anyway, perhaps it's time to consider fitting isolation valves to it and the taps to save some hassle in future

Once you're done, turn the water back on slowly and check for leaks or air locks. It is often advisable not to turn it on to full power initially, but partly open the valve and see if there's any leaks at the lower pressure. Once you're happy then you can fully open the valve

Geuze

Thanks very much.

There are four WC, one downstairs, three upstairs.

The cistern that is not filling is in an en-suite, it has a Viva Skylo bottom entry fill valve.

https://www.vivasanitary.co.uk/products/toilet-fill-valves.aspx?filter=

I looked in all four, and there is only one Viva Skylo fill valve. All seven other valves do not seem to be made by Viva.

Something else: since this en-suite cistern stopped filling last weekend, when taps elsewhere in house are run, there is sound in pipes, that worries me.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371251#Comment_120371251

Does it sounds a bit like there's something rattling in the pipes?

Could be an airlock, the taps will often spit water instead of flowing steadily if that's the case

If so then you need to purge the air from the system, I gave some advice earlier which has worked for me. But there's other methods, a bit of googling should find them

You also need to figure out how air is getting into the system. I'd start with that toilet which is constantly draining, it could drain the tank sufficiently to let air into the pipes (this has happened to me a few times)