Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328691#Comment_120328691

i only engage here with people who are willing to discuss the topic, you have shown that you are too afraid to voice your opinion on this topic, therefore please do not engage with me again here.

StreetLight

Music to the ears of the Burkes. Stock up on the popcorn.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328698#Comment_120328698

I'm not afraid at all, I'm quite happy to leave it the way it is and FYI it was you that engaged with me in the first place.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328717#Comment_120328717

but you are afraid... otherwise why cant you answer the question.

the answer to the question of "do you think it should change" is either "yes i do" or "no i dont"

you havent provided either answer, in a thread on the specific topic, therefore you have shown to be afraid to, and you have zero credibility.

we can all see where you now stand, so yes, im quite happy to leave it there. thanks.

thinkabouit

I really don’t get this gender equality thing.

Do they hope that more men will become nurses & more women will go laying blocks or something?

A pile of manure is what this referendum is.

id say there’s very few people who didn’t get x y & z because they were a man or a woman

Jazz Hands

In announcing the planned referendum on gender equality and a timeframe, the Government has said it will establish an inter-departmental group this month to agree on proposals.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said: "For too long, women and girls have carried a disproportionate share of caring responsibilities, been discriminated against at home and in the workplace, objectified or lived in fear of domestic or gender-based violence.

"I am pleased to announce that the Government plans to hold a Referendum this November to amend our Constitution to enshrine gender equality and to remove the outmoded reference to 'women in the home', in line with the recommendations of the Citizens Assembly on Gender Equality."

The goal of the referendum on Gender Equality seems to be one sided based on the Government.

Unless Ireland plans true gender equality then it’s a no from me.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328735#Comment_120328735

What part of "I'm quite happy to leave it as it is" were you finding it hard to understand?

But I'll make it easy for you, no I don't.

sydthebeat

...

howiya

I'll be voting yes before anyone comments to say I'm afraid of anything like they did with the last poster who brought up money. I would question the wisdom of holding a separate referendum in November from a cost point of view instead of holding it in tandem with the 2024 local elections.

redunited

I see no reason for this referendum.

Are women really tied to the kitchen that they can't get out to work because of some wording in the constitution?

In my opinion, this is more about normalising all the non-binary genders that are now claimed to exist and removing the traditional male and female roles from Irish society.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328765#Comment_120328765

OK Last Word Larry....hopefully your engagement is out of your system now and the thread can move forward.

My opinion is that the constitution requires no change in the area suggested. The womans place in the home is not a designation, but a protection should she choose not to work. We all know that these days, it takes two decent salaries to get a mortgage unless you go down the free/subsidised council house route.

If they do want to change that particular provision, then as another poster has already said, change "woman" to "person". I am inclined however to think that there is a bigger agenda here to squeeze in unnecessary specifics to pander to other ideologies. The constitution need not be and is not supposed to be a document for such unnecessary specifics.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328751#Comment_120328751

Okay, I'll bite. They've stated that they intend to add the concept of gender equality into the constitution. They've also mentioned a particular case where a specific gender was explicitly called out as fulfilling a subservient role. Are there other cases where a specific gender is listed as having a specific role that need to be changed?

TagoMago

Seems like real soft-ball stuff; "we will forever be remembered as the government that enshrined gender equality in our nation's constitution", etc. despite it making very little difference to anyone's lives

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328859#Comment_120328859

Do you consider a parent staying at home to focus on raising and taking care of the family to be a "sub" role?

I personally see it as an extremely important role and one in which I couldn't possibly manage full time as it is a challenging role and takes a lot to fill. I wouldn't consider it a subservient position at all. I don't understand some people who have the mentality that being a stay at home parent is any less important than going to work most days of the week. Both roles are important in their own right and both roles make valuable contributions to society.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328694#Comment_120328694

So, it would make sense to simplify things maybe as the poster said "simply get rid of the entire provision rather than attempt to amend it"?

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328897#Comment_120328897

It is an important role. And it is also an unpaid one. And one that the constitution assigns specifically to women. The constitution specifically calls out women to stay in a position where they have no income of their own and so are dependant on their partner to support them. THAT is what makes it a subservient role.

redunited

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328913#Comment_120328913

And what woman feels that are unable to go to work because of this?

None.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328913#Comment_120328913

On the contrary, the constitution specifically offers women greater protection by giving women a choice to stay at home rather than be forced to work out of economic necessity. This makes it much easier for a woman to claim benefits and she still has the OPTION/CHOICE to go out and work if she wishes to. Men don't have that same protection. You make it sound like women are being forced into subservient roles, which is simply not true. The current article is beneficial to women and is not the shackles and chains you make it out to be.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328923#Comment_120328923

I'll go one step further and guarantee you that 99% of the women (and men) didn't even know this phrase existed in the constitution.

I mean, hands up anyone on this forum who was troubled by this particular piece of text before yesterday.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328906#Comment_120328906

depends on if you think the role of a home maker is beneficial to the state and should be recognised as such.

if you dont... then remove it from the constitution.... if you do, they just change "woman" to "person"

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328923#Comment_120328923

enough that a citizens assembly has called for it to be amended

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328938#Comment_120328938

I linked this before, but you appear to have missed it. Suffice it to say that your assertion isn't accurate.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2023/0308/1201586-ireland-women-in-the-home-constitution-clause-1937-referendum/

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328945#Comment_120328945

It most definitely is beneficial with the caveat that there are bad parents too. But for the most part, it is more beneficial for a parent to be at home raising the children which will give the state, economy and society as a whole a net positive result. Leaving kids to be raised most of the day by strangers is not ideal, though is often a necessity for parents to be able to pay the mortgage and keep a roof over said childrens heads.

As said earlier, changing "woman" to "person" would be fine, as it then offers the same protection to the other half of the population who are effectively discriminated against through the aforementioned article of the constitution.

Furze99

I'll be interested to hear the views of the various groups that represent and speak for mothers who choose to work in the home raising children. If they are happy with the proposed changes, I'd be inclined to vote yes. But if they think this undermine their choices, then a definite no. They would be my principle guide.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328951#Comment_120328951

Are you being intellectually dishonest or do you really believe that this phrase in a text the vast majority have no knowledge of (and those that do are probably all employed in high positions) is stopping them going to work? Men up and down the country must have the constitution stuck onto the fridge as reference in arguments over who has to do the hoovering.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328957#Comment_120328957

What you have clearly missed is the sub-title of the article you linked. Look at the first word.....here, i'll make it easy and paste it below.

"Opinion: Article 41.2 was built on the myth of the male breadwinner, which impacted women differently depending on their background"

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328913#Comment_120328913

It's not just an important role. It's THE most important role for the future of society.

Why not campaign instead for a working wage for stay at home parents??

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328994#Comment_120328994

Fantastic idea. Make it a reasonable base salary. Increase it by number of dependents under ones care and in 20-30 years, we will all reap the benefits.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328983#Comment_120328983

im just relaying to you where this requirement for a referendum is coming from a "citizens assembly" not some jobsworth in a government office somewhere. believe it or not WE are all part of this citizens assembly. we were all offered the opportunity to comment on this suggested amendment

https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/previous-assemblies/2020-2021-citizens-assembly-on-gender-equality/

Citizens' were randomly selected by an independent polling company. They are broadly representative of the Citizens' of Ireland. For more information on this please click here.

As was the case for previous Assemblies, an Expert Advisory Group was put in place to assist the Chair and Secretariat in constructing a fair, balanced and comprehensive work programme for the Assembly on each of the topics set out in the Oireachtas resolution.

The Assembly launched a public call for submissions and 246 published responses were received. Dr. Pauline Cullen was appointed to analyse and summarise these to ensure they were reflected in the citizens’ deliberations.

so if you think its unwarranted, then great, youll have the ability to voice your opinion during the referendum. But for those who think its warranted, so will they.

gmisk

So who will be the face of the "no" campaign on this one? (Who will be given equal tv coverage...again)

I am guessing the usual Iona Institute, Maria Steen, David Quinn etc i.e. people who were wheeled out constantly during the marriage ref and abortion one?