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30 million for 2km of greenway!

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,870 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    they don't break down the cost - i am curious what the source of the figure is, and if it's accurate, what the breakdown is.

    one recent example was the purported cost of the fairview cycle path, which was breathlessly reported by some media outlets, who failed to mention that the vast majority of the cost was the water main replacement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,508 ✭✭✭Furze99


    Nothing would surprise me when it comes to costs of Greenways. It's usually 'ching..ching' all round: reports, landowners, plans, construction access, fancy bridges, insurance. I read now & then about one at Blessington too that started off with a modest proposal, councillors eyes lit up at funds available, expanded into a behemoth to extent that locals started objecting and now all stalled.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,121 ✭✭✭screamer


    Ah but carbon emissions, tourism something something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,610 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Going green is going to make some people A LOT of money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,574 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    this isn't a greenway in the sense that the rural ones are (they're tourist attractions, but not particularly "green" as most people drive to them) - once the canal way is completed in Dublin it will be a very heavily used commuter route and will encourage cycle commuting. IDK why it's so expensive though - there are some restrictions along the canal that have to worked around but 30m is a staggering figure.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    From the etenders site - expected completion Q2 2025.

    Id say the 'greenway surfacing' is a very small cost of below utilities work.


    The project consists of a Greenway route along the bank of the Royal Canal over an approximate 2.1km length between North Strand Rd (Newcomen Br) and Phibsborough Rd (Cross Guns Br).

    The key aspects of the project can be summarised as follows:

    • Construction of a dedicated cycle track and footpath, segregated by a slight level difference;

    • The route follows the existing tow paths which will require localised widening. In particular, two sections of the existing tow path will require the installation of a significant length of sheet piles in the canal to facilitate the required widening.

    The project involves a number of new structures including:

    • A retained earth structure from the tow path to footpath level at Phibsborough Rd;

    • A new steel bridge crossing the canal adjacent to Lock Gate 3;

    • New concrete ramps;

    • New concrete structural ramps/bridges;

    • Various minor concrete, masonary and retained earth structures;

    Includes 5 no. new signalised toucan crossings or junction signal upgrades to be provided Associated ducting, chambers and cabinets also to be provided as part of the works and Infrastructure as follows;

    • Infrastructure for a proposed ESB Networks 110kV circuit is to be provided along the length of the route which include 5 no. ducts and junction bays to facilitate future pulling of cables;

    • Replacement of existing public lighting heads along the entire route and associated lighting columns, pole retention sockets, ducting, chambers, ESB mini pillars and power supply connections;

    • Replacement of CCTV infrastructure along the entire route

    • Installation of 4 no. additional ducts along the entire route;

    • A services crossing of the canal at a point east of Lock Gate 3 which is expected to require temporary damming of a short section of the canal.

    Removal of existing services including:

    • 1.5km of existing gas main and 2.1km of existing CCTV ducting

    • The route requires a section of cut into the existing ground level with gas main diversion



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭AlanG


    Actually sems like a pretty good price for all that work. Anyone who ahs had electricity or gas work done knows it is very expensive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,048 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    TII reckon as it currently stands that standard greenway/cycle infrastructure is costing €4million-€7million per km, with €5.5million being the median figure. Just another reference point for people.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,870 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it's still weirdly high, given that the M20 motorway (90km) was forecast to cost €900m in i think 2012; €10m per km, just about double today's cost of provisioning a greenway.

    granted, the cost of the motorway now would not be €900m.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,048 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    The TII figure I gave takes the latest inflation into account (Feb 2023), which TII reckon has been fairly significant/large.

    Edit, the reason they're quoting the 4-7million figures is because it's actually becoming a problem.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,507 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Everything in Dublin is a ripoff, why would this be any different



  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Bsharp


    The costs balloon when building in a constrained urban environment with existing services.

    Did an international cost benchmarking exercise a few years ago in work. One of the biggest indicators for scheme cost is the width of the street. Narrower the street, higher the cost per km, because services are funnelled through a smaller section. Makes sense, and added to the jealousy of typically wider streets they have on the continent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,508 ✭✭✭Furze99


    Then clearly the route is unsustainable, they should have gone for a different alignment or abandoned the idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,503 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Unscrupulous people gouging on a construction job in this country, tale as old as time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    How does one realine a route that runs along the bank of a canal?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,870 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    just move the canal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,867 ✭✭✭✭elperello




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,508 ✭✭✭Furze99


    Plenty of situations where Greenways are following old railway lines and detour here & there for good reason. No problem elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The Contract Award Notice gives the value as €16,935,040.00;

    From that, I'd assume that the entire DCC Royal Canal Greenway is costing €30m, that the comments from Anne Graham were in relation to same and that the journalist is a complete and utter gobshıte.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭hamburgham


    There’s already a path there. Is this ridiculously over engineered, over specced, ie a bells and whistles job? If they were told 10m max was available, could they not produce a perfectly serviceable cycle path?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭whomadewho


    30 million to put down a gravel cycletrack 🤔. Corruption of the highest order, only in Ireland 😒



  • Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭specialbyte


    This is very suspect. Tender is 16.94 million excluding VAT. Add on VAT and we're roughly around 20 million. Where is 10 million euro disappearing to here?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Well the article says that Newcomen Bridge to North Strand Road cost €8.9m, add VAT and thats just over €10m.



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭Lofidelity


    I walked from the convention centre to Kilcock during covid times. The variety of the walk is what makes it interesting. I didn't see any need for improvement but I suspect this is all about making a cycle route for commuters. Nothing wrong with that but smooth, straight greenways are boring for me, maybe not someone commuting to work daily.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    And your proposal for a detour through a built up area that would be cheaper is what, exactly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Has anyone on this thread actually walked and cycled this route.

    Its already paved. Some of this work is effectively through a park.

    You need to do nothing to it do enable anyone to commute along it. Its being done to turn it into an amenity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,709 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Ah lads, don't be worried. It's only 14.29 Euro for every millimeter. Bargain.


    Well under 5,000 Euro per foot in old money. About 4286 Euro or so per foot only..



  • Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭alentejo


    5 traffic lights on the cycle route. Would expect flyovers for that kind of money



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    No it is not costing that. It has already been pointed out that that article is nonsense and proof provided.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey



    Phase 3 is a more complicated project than just path widening. It’s being built in a confined space in an urban area and, given construction inflation, it would have been much cheaper to build if it wasn’t delayed so much since its approval by councillors in 2015...

    ... As noted above, a large chunk of the project’s €30.8m price tag is set aside for contingency and risk, nearly €5m and just over €2m respectively.

    he Projects’ Business Plan states: “At this stage, the main update to the risk register has been the addition of a risk item associated with inflation; whilst the main contract costs are known, current market conditions give rise to the possibility of emergency relief or ex-gratia payments.”



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