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Lead Ban Question

  • 13-02-2023 12:57pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 31


    With the new lead ban about to come into effect here in the coming days I have a question regarding where lead shot will be able to be used considering only 18.6% (roughly) of the country is considered wetlands and therefore a nationwide ban isnt being enforced (Yet.)

    What constitutes as wetland? I myself live in the west of Ireland and have no idea whether I am legally allowed to continue to shoot lead shot because of how vague this is made out to be.

    Any ideas?

    Post edited by JasonCee on


Answers

  • Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭keith s


    I think part of the problem we have, is that the definition of wetand being used in the ban, means if it rains and a puddle forms, it is then considered wetland.

    I will have a look to see if I can find the definition that they are using.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31 JasonCee


    Found this:

    Has an interactive map that shows in some detail what in your local area is considered wetland. I wonder would this stack as proof if the Gardaí were to ask?

    Anyway hope this helps for those also interested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,944 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Going by the draconian law forced thru by our EU overlords. You could technically be done for having a lead cartridge within 100 meters of a puddle that has formed in your field after the last rain shower. Irrespective if it is private property or not! It will be up to you [as usual ] to prove you weren't going to use it to go hunting wildfowl either with said ammo

    What does it mean in reality on the ground for most of us? Carry on as normal, this is utterly up in a heap and questionable if it can even be enforced on the ground with a lack of NPWS staff or Gardai willing to pull on their waders and go lurking around marshes and duck blinds within the season of course to check for compliance of whether we have lead or steel shot.What will happen will be eventually we will run out of lead ammo in our gunships and be forced to use either steel,bismuth,a BYPRODUCT of the lead industry,copper, pewter or tungsten. I'd recommend Bismuth as being the closest alternative to lead for a clean kill and less richoet chances.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 31 JasonCee


    Suppose we will have to take the lead lottery and hope for the best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭solarwinds


    And lets not forget about the EU's proposed new policy of having 70% of previously drained wet lands re wetted and rewilded by 2050. 20% of which is to be done by 2030.

    Now that if it gets through coupled with the Lead ban over wet areas will have a big impact on shooting sports.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand


    Is this only for hunting or does it apply to ranges too? then lead ammo will still be available for target shooters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31 JasonCee


    It applies to hunting and all outdoor shooting other than ranges I would imagine. Private clay shooting, hunting etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,944 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    It applies to ALL shooting!!!Especially ranges!!! Whether you are a wildfowler, deer hunter, 22 rifle paper hole puncher, antique muzzleloading shooter,pistol shooter...ALL of us are affected. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either badly misinformed,deluded or being willfully ignorant on the subject.Be they individuals or organisations. Remember too,the EUCHA can find out too in a few years time that an alternative to lead is suddenly the next boogeyman that must be removed from society for the good of all. Meantime expect to see the complaints and whinge level rise because of the massive amounts of wounded birds by steel shot over the next few years.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand


    over Wetlands only I taught?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,944 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Nope!!! There are three phases to this. Banning lead over wetlands was phase 1.

    Phase 2 is going after lead in ALL ammo and locations Phase 3 is banning the private usage or manufacture of lead products related to shooting and fishing.

    If you want to read all about how we were treated by our real rulers in Brussels. Here's a page of articles about this over the last few years. https://www.all4shooters.com/en/search-result/?q=EU+lead+ban


    And here's a link to the EU LAW on this, it's not a directive that allows a member state to implement it as sees fit. This has to be obeyed as literal law from Brussels.So you can be sure our lot in wanting to be the EU Teachers pet will implement this[or try to] to the letter.

    chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.all4shooters.com/en/shooting/law/eu-lead-ban-the-battle-is-lost-leadshot-in-wetlands-will-be-history-soon/commission-regulation-eu-202157.pdf?cid=1fmn

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25 6.5x55 seller ammo


    You’re coming across a little aggressive and IREXIT-lite on the EU legislative process.


    If this EU law has been approved, Irish Commission members, Irish MEPs and the relevant Irish government department (Irish European Council members) would have all had input into this law and if felt truly strongly, could have vetoed the development. Moreover, the past three EU presidencies are all quite hunting friend counties in CZ, SL and currently SE.


    The whole “rulers from Brussels” angle is quite ignorant at worst or at least disingenuous at best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BSA International


    Well I'm 100% in agreement with Grizzly on this and FTR I'm in the "Irexit-heavy" camp.

    Irelands' politicans in EU......"YES" men & women......sold out & continuing to sell out the country & it's people for 30 pieces of silver !



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 6.5x55 seller ammo


    I won’t comment as to what I think as it’s getting off topic, but why don’t you just look across the water to see all the benefits of being outside of the EU… but hey, at least you’ll have lead bullets 😀.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9 Non Playable Character


    The EU is only an excuse for governments to bring in things that they want that are unpopular or controversial. "Oh, the EU made us do it." Just look at the government/EU made migrant crisis for another example.


    All the governments in western/central Europe that are anti gun are on the same page and think this lead ban idea is great. Gets them what they want and they pass the buck to the bogeyman in the EU.


    As pointed out above, the UK are enforcing this ban dispite being outside the EU. Same with Switzerland. Hmmm, it's almost as if all these governments just want to find ways to restrict civilian shooting full stop regardless.


    And I'm saying this as someone who is not a fan of the EU either btw. It's a bloated undemocratic bureaucracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,944 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    All you have to do is look at how the Irish MEPs voted on this issue in Brussels for your answer on the lead ammo ban,and on the semi auto ban as well.Even if they were all not in favour of it and voted by sticking up both arms,it would make no diffwrence in the,EUSSR voting as it is proportional repersentation,IOW the big boys overide anything the little boys have to say by size of their country and number of MEPs .(Somthing the US FFs foresaw 200 years ago and is the reason it has an electoral college).Not only that the majority of decisions are taken in Trilouges in Brussels not inopen parlimentary debates.Unaccounted ,undocumented,no press or public access meetings that can go on for literal days and nights where table thumping and threats and shouting are the norm.As we found out via Dita Charsnivkoa and Vicky Ford MEPs faced down Sir Peter King MEP on the proposed EU semi auto ban,where that utterly insufferable man was trying to bring in UK style firearms legislation to Europe! Thanks to those two women telling that bully to pee off over a 36 hour meeting,we still do have a few SA rifles left in this country.

    I am always not surprised at quite frankly the utter ignorance of the average Irish person of how this EU superstate works and affects their lives.If we have a former minister once saying he thought the Frankfurt school of Economics was "a very nice building"🙄🙄.To I bet no one here knowing what the Ventoene decleration is,or who wrote it and when and where it was written?Or what the history of some of the founders of the EEC s past were? All kind of important things when you have to li e under this system and look past the Auochs response of "The EU is grand.Shure dey gives us money for whatever!"

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,944 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    BTWas to why the Swiss ,and Iceland voted for the lead and mag ban is,simple.They are within the Shengen area and are still under EU influence on movement and trade! So you dont have to be a fully paid up member to have to dance to Brussells /Strassbourgs tune.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 25 6.5x55 seller ammo


    Again, before it gets to a vote in the parliament, it goes through the co-legislation process of the Commission and Council, followed by trilogues (involving all three key EU institutions) and then finalisation via a vote in the parliament. In the Council, it could have been vetoed, but wasn’t. You can guess for a variety of reasons. Also; let’s imagine this was solely decided in the Dail - do you think it would have been dismissed?


    Anyway, we’re way of topic and the Ban is coming this week. Plus, steel shot is great 😊



  • Registered Users Posts: 516 ✭✭✭BSA International


    Sheeple, sheeple everywhere!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    It has been a very long time indeed since there was an EU shill here.

    Anyone who is even vaguely aware of European firearm politics knows that the EU is a largely unelected and completely unaccountable organisation that dictates policy to member states.

    As seen previously in:

    EU gun ban,

    Lead ban,

    Magazine ban,

    Nice I and II,

    Lisbon I and II,

    European Directive No. 91/477/EC and later the 2017 directive amending the former.


    The lead ban in particular is a sterling example of the amount of propaganda and authoritarianism that is embodied by the EU.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,944 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Steel shot is great...Wait until you go bird hunting with it and see how many wounded birds you have! Not to mind how many dentists will become very happy doing crowns and repairing chipped teeth from biting on the one missed steel shot pellet! Ever wonder why Norway reversed the ban on lead shot? For that very reason.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Steel shot is a very poor substitute for lead shot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31 JasonCee


    Bismuth is a better alternative to steel in my opinion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,944 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Bismuth ; a lead making byproduct...irony...much?

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 31 JasonCee


    And bismuth cartridges are going for north of 50 euros for a box of 25!

    You would want to be a very wealthy man to go out for a days clay shooting with those prices. Unbelievable.



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