Sleeping with an older Italian woman that is causing me a lot of heartache and misery

Smoke420meme

I met an Italian woman in my local pub, she is 46 and I am 33. The relationship started as casual pub mates. We would meet up for pints and drink with other friends in our local and then at the end of the night we would go home together to her house and drink a bit more and sleep with each other(Just sleeping and kissing) We live a 5 minute walk from each others houses. As the months have gone on things have become more complicated and unpleasant and dramatic.

Problem 1: I have caught feelings.

Problem 2: She is not looking for a relationship, is enjoying being single and is dating other men. She suggested we have an open relationship but I hate that idea. Recently she told me she is not interested in dating anyone else but I don't really trust her, as she is always going back on things she says and promises she makes.

Problem 3: She flirts with everyone, which makes me insecure and hurts me.

Problem 3 B: I have stormed off from a night out we had because she asked me if she could kiss a guy at the bar we were at. I said I feel angry about you asking me that and I went home alone, she kissed the guy and then, even after that drama, that night me and her ended up spending the night in bed together.

Problem 3 C. She went on a date one Friday a few weeks ago. She spent the night with him, I was very upset. Then the next day we get drunk together and I end up in her bed again. This time her date from Friday pops his head in the window of her ground floor bedroom, seeing if he can stay the night again. He see's me in the bed naked. She lets him in for some stupid reason, he comes into the bedroom and starts going mental at her calling her a manipulative bitch and then storms off. I felt bad, I felt like she was playing every man around her and I am only in the bed for that night. I felt bad for the window man who was very drunk and drove his car home that night. She is still talking to the guy who popped in the window, which I find very weird and stupid.

Problem 4: We made an agreement to stay friends, keep the sex, but she won't talk about other people she is sleeping with and won't flirt in front of me. Basically act like we are together when we are with each other. She is incapable of doing this though, she gets drunk and then starts flirting with someone. Last night her housemate was in the pub with us and she said to him "You are behaving very sexy" and slapped his ass twice. When I brought this up with her that night she gaslighted me and told me I am wrong for being annoyed about it, she said if "If you are going to behave like this maybe you can go home".

Problem 5: She is just generally rude to me. She won't say "Hey I'm a bit tired maybe you can head home now", she will say "Ok **** off now please" or "Ciao" which she means bye. She can be kind and sweet when we are alone but when we are with other people can totally change and be very rude. She has a real cruel streak, which comes out very casually and randomly. She is perhaps an emotionally immature woman.

I have super low self esteem and ongoing mental health issues, which I think both are playing a part in why I'm putting up with this bad behaviour. I have tried to stop seeing her but this woman has also become a friend and our social lives are totally blended together. So if I cut her off I lose mutual friends, our pub dynamic and the sex.

It's probably important to mention I haven't dated for years up until recently and am only starting to get my footing in the dating world.

MarkR

Is your self respect worth the odd ride? Nothing is going to change unless you make the change.

Smoke420meme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208165#Comment_120208165

Good point, I guess I'm just very lonely and horny and that combo paired with **** loads of drink is just making it impossible to say no.

CrookedJack

Well, there's a lot to unpack here. I would make a few points.

1. She seems to be very clear that this is not the kind of romantic relationship you want it to be. She wants it to be casual, fun and unfettered. She seems unable or unwilling to commit to the barest minimum of what you need.
2. You are unable or unwilling to have the kind of casual and careless physical relationship she wants.
3. This situation is a symptom of your low self-esteem. If you really valued yourself you would not allow someone to consistently ignore your boundaries and still give them your time.
4. This is a toxic relationship for you, it will further erode your self-esteem, damage your mental health and end up with you all feeling worse off.

You know what you need to do.

dobman88

She has told you she doesn't want a relationship and is happy with a casual arrangement and she is treating it exactly like that.

You've caught feelings and are now getting burned.

You either need to reconcile with yourself that it's a FWB situation and go with it even though it won't end well for you because you've got feelings or you need to just stop the sex and get over it which will take time.

In your "Problem 5" that's not her being rude. That's pretty standard behaviour in a FWB situation. You have sex and then it's out the door. It's just your own feelings for her mistaking it as rudeness.

I'd suggest cutting off the sex, even cut back on the general contact cos it won't end well for you if you carry on.

Best of luck.

Padre_Pio

She seems perfectly happy with the situation and she has been completely upfront with you.

You have not accepted this and expect her to change.

Time to move on ASAP, or accept that when you pop over for the ride, you might not have been the first guy that day.

If you feel like you can take a step back and be friends, then maybe that works. I think you should just cut ties completely.

TheadoreT

If you literally withdraw your attention from her, don't message her first ever anymore, and be more focused on improving yourself in general she'll start chasing you and probably be begging you for a relationship within a few months. What women say they're attracted to and what they actually respond to are very different. Being perturbed and angry by her behaviour will only ever lessen her respect for you.

But she sounds absolutely terrible so I wouldn't even advise bothering in general.

How much do you drink? Stating losing out on pub friends and pub dynamic as a negative consequence feels a bit over reliant on what's probably a massive contributer to your poor mental health, and while not your immediate issue here it feels relevant.

screamer

Causing you heart ache and misery? At 33, life is too short to be someone’s f@@k buddy when it hurts you. There’s someone else out there who won’t treat you badly, and the sooner you move on, the sooner you’ll meet them.

YellowLead

Surely there is something more to life than drinking in a pub? Just start going somewhere else. Why are you expecting this woman to change? She’s not interested in you romantically and will never want to be exclusive. She’s not lying about it or trying to hide it - fair play to her for going out there and getting what she wants and not pretending otherwise. You’re being an eejit and you know it - the only advice is to stay away.

mingkim

Run

Count Dracula

Op, she has massive issues and I would not bother. You still have plenty of time to meet someone who wants to generate a relationship.

She will end up going through every bachelor, married man, young buck barman and the rest. She will do it and you really don't need to be the guy that everyone says she is making a fool of?

Don't take it personally either, attractive Italians in their 40's,who haven't settled down ,sound like a complete nightmare?Granted I would say she is a wonderful lover, Latins live to love. But you will find out down the line that she has some form of neurosis detachmebt , whatever they call it now?

Most importantly take it in your stride, you don't owe her a thing. But dooooo be nice to her, she will be used to a range of reactions to her calamity and she does need some sort of security in her life. Be big about it.

She most likely is incapable of considering anyone in the world apart from herself, that's right there are plenty of them around, but she mentally cannot consider anyone else, she never has and doesn't understand the concept. My point is that, don't beat yourself up over it, you did nothing wrong here and your sentiment is sincere.

Smoke420meme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208582#Comment_120208582

Thanks for the insight. Very impressive and accurate psychological analysis. I'd almost guess that you've dated emotionally unavailable Italian cougars before!

Goodigal

For your own sake, cut ties with this woman now. She's driving you wild with jealousy and isn't going to settle down.

See it as a crazy experience you don't need to repeat but it's not doing you any good. Easy for me to say when you've fallen for her. But from what you have described, she's having plenty of fun because she can. Walk away before you get sucked in any further. Look after yourself.

Count Dracula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209016#Comment_120209016

It is highly likely that she is a sociopath, her behaviour is indicative of it, it is frankly appalling. Being sociopathic does not mean she is necessarily a bad person, but it does mean that she is extremely dangerous to get involved with.

You mentioned that she was rude when asking you to leave, in fairness Latins are very direct people. Common Irish tact infuriates them generally, they consider our manners fine, but they find our white lies insufferable, they don't get it at all.

Has she started a family, has she any kids?

In general attractive charming women in the mid 40's with a litany of failed relationships can be assumed to be completely bat shít, there are plenty around. If you find this is the case keep your distance, I mean that. She has been tagging along immature or naive partners all her life, she would have developed routine at this stage.

You are only 33, go and find a nice woman in her late 20's who would like to settle, if that is what you want? You won't meet one down the boozer on a Tuesday night either, that is when all the crazies are self-medicating. I am not trying to demean anyone with a psychological condition, but you should be prioritising your limits and boundaries. You are looking the wrong way for starters. Oodles of crackers out there looking to ditch the grunge and get into settling, if that is what you would like to do?

The DayDream

Listen to the Count. I mean it sounds harsh but it's not far wrong

Purple Mountain

Get a hobby outside of pub life.

She flirts with everyone, which makes me insecure and hurts me

This alone would be a pair of drill bits to each temple for me.

Would suggest cutting her off.

lawrencesummers

Your acknowledging that you have mental health issues, and that your drinking a huge amount.

That wont end well.

Give up the drink for 3 weeks or a month, and guaranteed you will see the world and this relationship in a different light, go back on the drink then if you want but have the sense to acknowledge the benefits of (temporary) sobriety.

You cant make a rational decision with your dick running the show or with your brain fogged from the drink.

She sounds like the village bicycle tbh.

buzzerxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210166#Comment_120210166

The best response so far imho.

cj maxx

Move on , quickly . She has her cake and eating it . Your self esteem will pick up for a start

Floppybits

Time to move on. She doesn't want what you want, and you don't want what she wants so best to just call it quits and move on. Nothing worse than staying with someone hoping that they may change their mind to what you want. Best off moving on find someone that wants the same as you and take it from there.

Hannibal_Smith

@Eircom_Sucks I've deleted your post. As per the Charter, offer constructive advice in a civil manner to the OP or do not post.

HS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120208220#Comment_120208220

Take this good advice given. I am but unsure what she being Italian has to do with it :)

wonga77

This is like something you would read on reddit

She's told you exactly the kind of arrangement she wants. If you don't like it then its time to back away. Plenty other women out there and besides you've already got some sound advice here

You’ve fallen in love with her, that’s quite a natural and normal thing to happen. But she is the last person you need in your life. Seems to me she may have a mental health issue as her behaviour is reminiscent of a woman I know who has bipolar disorder and making as many almost simultaneous sexual conquests is what she has done when in a state of hypomania. Very easy to say from an armchair, but IMO, for your sanity you would need to block/delete her from your contact list, any social media, and don’t go to the same places she does. You could put it that you don’t want to be wasting her time. I’m meantime take up some hobby where you might socialise with some healthy minded people. If you download the app Meetup you can see lots of activities to meet people in general and eventually help clear your head.

Panthro

Ah lad,you need to protect yourself. She's made it unequivocally clear she's not into relationships, she's getting with multiple other men. Put simply, this is not for you.

Pull the trousers up, pull the shields up and cut whatever you want to call it (friend, FWB) out of your life.

Say to her its no longer working for you, all the best, but you're no longer available to meet up. If you're drinking, challenge yourself to a month off see how you get on. Every week you're off it set a few quid aside, after a month treat yourself to something (not beer!)

Doing what your doing has no good outcome. Time to change course.

Best a luck

GavPJ

She is toxic. Run.

redoctober

I'm sure lots of guys have been there. Beautiful women are intoxicating but can make a real fool of us. Best to call it a day I would say. But I feel your pain. I remember a beautiful italian girl in her 20s when I was in my 20s too. But she just wanted fun. It's hard to accept. I was the kind to fall quickly which wasn't good. Anyway, looking back today best to steer clear. Find a nice girl you like you for you...cliche I know!!

CPTM

Well if it helps, I'd much rather be in your shoes than hers. Run fast, run far. I wouldn't say she's very very toxic. Just living a different life. And there are plenty of damaged men out there who can mess around as well as she can. Leave them all to it and go find someone somewhere with more integrity for a better time.

Billcarson

Where's your self respect? Sounds like this woman has no respect for herself let alone anyone else. At least you can have respect for yourself by walking away and leave her to it . Dont let anyone waste your time, walk away.

TheadoreT

A lot of people are calling her beautiful for some reason. Is it the Italian part lol?

She's a late 40's, pub dwelling, probable alcoholic. For some reason I can't imagine she's the picture of health.

And more relevant for the OP a horrible influence for his overall well being

Dial Hard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120212283#Comment_120212283

The OP is responsible for his wellbeing, not this woman.

I agree he's better off out of a situation that's clearly not working for him, but the amount of vitriol being aimed at an adult woman who is entitled to make her own choices is pretty staggering, tbh.

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120212309#Comment_120212309

It was more the notion that she's some sort of catch/irresistible temptation that I was questioning. It all sounds pretty grim from both sides tbh.

But people are excusing her behaviour saying she was honest with him about intentions. Even in casual/open relationships there needs to be an underlying amount of respect for the other person, and not "can I meet your man over there" type behaviour when together, a bit of tact goes a long way. Obviously he's completely enabling it but she still sounds pretty terrible.

"Village bicycle" - so unnecessary. It's not used about men so no need to use it about women.

Anyway, it's sh1t when you really like someone and they sucker you in with a few crumbs, enough to make you feel like there might be a chance... but there isn't. You have to cut the cord - you just have to. It's very difficult though - I've been there (would you believe there are both sh1tty women and sh1tty men!!!) But it's absolutely the only answer.

ted1

We all need a little cray cray in our lifes. But this is on another level. Turn and run

this situation isn’t good for your mental health.

Caranica

"Sleeping with an older Italian woman that is causing me a lot of heartache and misery". The answer is simple. Stop it. If you're doing anything that makes you miserable, stop doing it. Move on. You owe that to yourself.

Katgurl

Seriously it all sounds ridiculous - everything centered around the local pub, drunk people charging info bedrooms then driving home after embarrassing themselves.

I was involved in these sort of messes when I was younger and honestly the only sane thing to do is to step away from it all entirely.

Join a hiking, running, triathlon club, take lessons in something (anything), basically look for hobbies and interests elsewhere. This is not living.

herbalplants

Jesus... Read your post, that alone should make you stay away from this neurothical woman. What normal woman at 46 behaves like that?

Cut her off. End of.

marilynrr

I have tried to stop seeing her but this woman has also become a friend and our social lives are totally blended together. So if I cut her off I lose mutual friends, our pub dynamic and the sex.

It's a small price to pay if it means you can get out of this cycle of misery and hurt.

If you continue this then there's going to be drama after drama, argument after argument, more men which will make you insecure, more hurt/pain/misery...

I have super low self esteem and ongoing mental health issues, which I think both are playing a part in why I'm putting up with this bad behaviour.

Probably, but sometimes people with good self esteem and good mental health get caught up in these situations and they **** their head completely, so if you're already struggling then this is likely to cause you significant harm if you keep seeing her.

I guess I'm just very lonely and horny and that combo paired with **** loads of drink is just making it impossible to say no.

Can you make some changes in your life and maybe take on some hobbies that don't involve the pub and alcohol?

You have both have different views of what is going on here.

She wants no strings sex and has been very upfront about that. You, on the other hand, want a relationship and you aren’t being upfront about that, but are going along with the casual friends with benefits thing and becoming upset by it.

There’s nothing wrong with what either of you want. You’re not going to change each other, nor should you attempt to.

You just don’t want the same things, so you need to stop seeing her, move on and find someone else who is more compatible with you.

yourdeadwright

Know your worth , only you can give yourself self respect, get rid & don't turn back , She is using you

Your a young man plenty of fish in the sea, remember you pulled a good looking older women so you have something about you go use it on someone who wants to give it back to you ,

It's a learning experience you'll laugh about in the future ,

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

Although there's no obligation for an OP to come back to a thread, not only has the OP not been back but also there's rarely a thread in PI/RI where the advice is pretty unanimous. In the circumstances there's little point in keeping this one open.

Thanks all who offered advice

HS

Hannibal_Smith

Reopened at OP's request

....and closed again. I blame myself.

OP you said you wanted the thread reopened to thank posters, which featured no where in your 'update'. Keeping threads open in PI so they can be updated for 'drama' is specifically against the Charter.

HS