Accident while cleaning a house

zig

I was going to try write a completely unbiased post but it’s too much hassle.

A cleaning company (not me btw) did a job in a house. Job cost €750 and fully complete to expected standard (which is very high btw), well it seemed so, until before they were leaving they smelt smoke, long story short a towel was pressed against a small lamp due to it resting on a fully opened door (opened all the way back to the wall) and eventually caught fire and left a black unfixable stain in an expensive door. One of the cleaners left the towel there and it turns out it’s a halogen bulb which can get super hot.

Genuinely everyone was really lucky the house didn’t burn down as the towel was in flames in a walk-in wardrobe.

She is now working with the customer now to resolve the issue. It’s a rare hard to get fancy door but they have a received a quote for approx €650. She has asked the customer could she use some of the cost of cleaning job to pay for it and customer has basically said they won’t be paying anything until the door is replaced.

Honestly I don’t get their logic because the way I see it is the problem is theirs at this stage because the cleaning company has already written off the idea that they’ll make anything from the job and have accepted it’ll cost them more once varnishing and fitting is complete (which they’ll pay for).

So now the cleaning company does not want to take the risk of putting up the money due to already being owed €750.

This will effectively leave a stand off as far as I can see.

My question is, if this escalated, and let’s say the customer went to small claims court, do they have a leg to stand on?

The cleaning company caused the damage, so the problem is theirs until the damage is repaired.

You say the company doesn't want to risk putting up the money to pay for the door, but why should the customer take the risk of paying them, and then trusting they will actually pay for the door and not just block their number?

No, I wouldn't give them a cent either. I'd expect the damage to be fixed, then I'd pay if all else was satisfactory.

grinder23

I'd read it more like the cleaning company is owed €750 and quote for door is €650 so nobody pays anyone

Customer gets door replaced from the €750 they owe the cleaning company

Or else I'm picking it up wrong

I read it that the cleaning company wants to be paid either the €750 or €100 after the €650 quote for the door. But I could be wrong.

If I was the customer, I'd get a full quote for the door including fitting, varnishing, etc, and inclusive of VAT (if applicable) and pay for it.

Then I'd pay any balance left owing out of the €750 for the cleaning job - or seek what was left, if total cost of repair cost more than that.

zig

Sorry I should have been clearer about who transfers who money (and why), @[Deleted User] is correct in so far as the cleaning company did suggest to get paid by the customer to pay for the door. However this was only because the cleaning company could then buy it for cheaper (by claiming the vat). So they were only looking for ex vat from the customer for that part. This suggestion was made clear to the customer (and the logic behind it). It was simply a practical suggestion for it to work out cheaper for everybody.

However due to the response of the customer saying no, the next step will be for the cleaning company to offer them to pay directly for the door using the money owed for cleaning. It’s worth noting the person who quoted for the door was helped organised by the customer.

I think if the customer says no to that suggestion then I would start to think it’s their problem, because a full and excellent job was still complete on the house despite that incident so the cleaning company would be exposing themselves to what will probably amount to approx €1500 (being down €750 paying for the door including installation and €750 owed for cleaning which they would then have to chase).

By using the money the customer owe for the cleaning nobody has to have any trust issues imo.

lenan

The cleaning company has to pay for the damage, I think under the Consumer Law 22 the client has the right to withhold payment. Have a look at this

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/buying_services/problem_with_a_service.html#l960c6

wylo

. edited...ignore...

Deregos.

Do the cleaning Co. not have public liability insurance?

eusap

Answer is simple, customer pays for the door €650 and asks for the receipt made out to the cleaning company, once customer is happy the balance of €100 and receipt is given to cleaning company

Timfy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190597#Comment_120190597

I would say the proper solution, if relations are still cordial between all the parties involved, is for the cleaning company to be paid in full for the work that they undertook and then the cleaning company reimburses the client via their public liability insurance once this has gone through the cleaners insurance underwriter.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190612#Comment_120190612

I'd say that the excess on a businesses liability insurance would be more than €1k. There's zero reason for this to go through insurance when @eusap has given a perfectly good solution.

zig

Thanks all, I think they do have insurance, but as mentioned, the excess might be an issue. It will be interesting to see if the customer accepts that proposal.

Because the next step I can see after that is the customer going down the small claims court route which Im assuming they would not be in the mood for (hassle wise). Also I am assuming that the question would get asked if there was any attempt to resolve it, which there very much is.

From my biased point of view, I did raise the question to the company what the hell is a bulb capable of doing that still there for but tbf the cleaning company didnt go down that route (and Im sure it would have been a lost cause).

radiotrickster

I don’t understand why you would question the bulb. It’s pretty obvious that you don’t leave flammable objects leaning against heat sources like that. Bringing that up with the customer would be like trying to place some of the blame on them and increase the tension between everyone.

If I was the customer, I’d be expecting the company to follow my wishes to be honest. It’s their property that was damaged so why would they care if it can be bought for cheaper without VAT? If they want the company to pay for the damages to be fixed before they pay for the cleaning service, it’s only fair in my opinion. They’re the ones with the damaged house who are being put out by the situation.

NUTLEY BOY

On the limited evidence it seems likely that the employee of the cleaning company was negligent.

I do not think that the customer has a right to withhold payment as that is putting themselves in the place of being the judge of the merits of their own case.

I see this as a claim and a counterclaim. Specifically, the customer's claim should be grounded in negligence and breach of contract. The cleaning company should counterclaim for breach of contract. The latter breach of contract arises from the fact that the customer did receive some work of worth and value and the cleaners are entitled to be paid contractual consideration for that on the basis of quantum meruit.

The householder is entitled to have the door repaired by whomsoever they like.

The quantum of each side's claim once established could be finally resolved by set-off.

P.S. If cleaners do have public liability insurance they really should not be talking directly to the customer without clearance from the insurers even if there is an excess.

zig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192633#Comment_120192633

Well the company obviously agrees with you regarding the bulb hence they didn’t mention it. That was just more own personal view that it was incredibly unfortunate and unlucky that the series events played out the way they did and would not have happened if it was a normal bulb, or even if the door was even a half cm more closed. It can’t be denied that even the word negligent is quite harsh in this incident.

Again though, I’m not disputing your point from a legal perspective. Just more my personal opinion.

zig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192810#Comment_120192810

Just curious what you mean by set-off?

edit: sorry I just googled it :)

Also worth mentioning that the customer has, at least indirectly, acknowledged that the job is complete outside of this issue. They’ve done this by stating they’ll pay once the door is fixed.

Also, in this case it’s the customer who has picked the person to quote for the door.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192899#Comment_120192899

by set-off they mean if the house cleaning cost 750 and the new door is 850 then the cleaning company owe the customer 100.

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190498#Comment_120190498

Coorect on 1

wrong on 2

radiotrickster

Well I wouldn’t want to pay for a service that left me with damages in my house until the damages were fixed either. The cleaner was negligent, whether you like the use of the word or not. If they hadn’t have been careless, it wouldn’t have happened.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120193172#Comment_120193172

That's my thoughts too.

The cleaning company should pay for the door with the explicit understanding that the customer will pay for cleaning when the door is repaired.

Dr Turk Turkelton

If the door is going to cost 550 how much is the labour to hang it and do the metal work on it going to cost?

Also the painting of it as well?

I'd say total cost of this job is going to be in or around 1000 euros.

Are the cleaning company going to pay the extra as well?

NSAman

This is why companies have insurance. Shouldn't be a major issue to claim under that by the Cleaning Company. Once paid, the client should then pay the cleaning company in full.

osarusan

I'd not think much of a cleaning company that screwed up like that in the first place, then asked me to pay for the job so that they could afford to go and buy the replacement needed as a result of their screw-up.

walterking

Looks like the customer may want "compensation" by way of a reduced fee after the door is fixed. And that's what the cleaning company is concerned about.

No use looking at insurance as the excess is probably at least €750.

Hellrazer

I had a similar issue where a carpenter who was installing a wooden floor cut the mains water pipe with his saw. It was spotted quite quickly and the mains was turned off so only minor ceiling damage - it was an upstairs bedroom that the floor was going into.

The floor job was costing me €1200 euros and the quote from the plumber was €600.00 for the pipe repair and ceiling repainting.

I with held payment for the floor until the plumbing was sorted. I got the plumber to make out the invoice to the carpenters company so they could claim the VAT back and paid the plumber the €600.00

I then paid the carpenter €600.00 and everyone was happy in the end.

Seemed to me the most reasonable way to sort it out.

zig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120193306#Comment_120193306

In truth, I would say both sides are worried about the same thing. Neither wants to be screwed by some unexpected follow up. For me that justifies even more the logic behind the customer simply using money they will owe to cover it.

zig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120193287#Comment_120193287

I honestly don’t see how a reasonable customer would not do whatever is most practical to get it resolved. If it’s just a case of who pays who and when then any honest customer will see no problem using money they know they otherwise wouldn’t have.

At the end of all this, the customer will get both their paid job complete and door sorted. Why would they not just do what it takes to get to that point. The company will be down, albeit as a result of their mistake but still.

Define "reasonable"?

The cleaning company almost burned their client's house down. They should be bending over backwards to accommodate the client's wishes. If I was the client I wouldn't be feeling very reasonable towards them.

One online review of gross carelessness like this, and it could do the business a lot of damage. The cleaner should pick their battles.

CramCycle

If the customer screws the company, it's a loss of 1400, if the client screws the customer it's the same.

All silly beggars really, the cleaning company, unless a one man show, isn't going to do it for reputation sake.

Get the quote for the door, let the client pay with invoice to the company and then the company can invoice them for 100euro. Worse case scenario, the client screws them for 100euro and they don't touch them again.

Why make a simple thing complicated.

CramCycle

Also zig, I hope the business is going ok other than this issue

zig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120193948#Comment_120193948

hehe, although ive declared my total bias in it, it aint mine, but obviously someone close! 😁

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120193940#Comment_120193940

I should also have said, if required the company will give written confirmation of the reduction in price. In reality, I'd say that the €100 loss is worth more than the reputational damage so should probably write it off as a loss against the books and offer it as a token of good faith, i.e. the customer does as above and then there is no outstanding cost so they have a little more inconvenience but save €100.

Girl Geraldine

Since the cleaning bill and door replacement costs are near the same, the customer could be told that the cleaning company will write off the €750 cleaning bill completely and the customer can feck off and get the door fixed themselves.

The €100 difference is not even worth talking about. A house almost burned down for jesus sake. €650 is a trivial amount considering what could have happened, let alone the pittance of €100. Ye should be counting your blessings.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120195517#Comment_120195517

Customer can feck off? Seriously? The cleaner damaged their home. The cleaning company should pay for a new door immediately, sack the idiot who put the item on the light, write off the cleaning fee and thank their lucky stars that they don’t end up in court contesting a claim for smoke damage, further cleaning costs etc on top of the door and an article in the paper describing how “cleaning company set our house on fire.”

Girl Geraldine

You must understand what I say. Read the post again.

The cleaning company owe 650 for to repair the clients door.

The Clients also owes 750 to cleaners for the cleaning work.

Kim saying the cleaners just forget about and write off the 750 coaching bill. The client, not having to pay for the cleaning services now can spend that 750 on a new door.

Client also has an extra 100 for their troubles.

It's simplest way out of it as far as I can see

As I read it, I think €650 covers the door only. It doesn't seem to include the hanging of the door, varnishing it or door furniture.

The final price may be a good bit more.