Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101077#Comment_122101077

Close - it was Roderic O'Gorman who issued the tweets, which are still up as far as I'm aware.

Listened to a bit of the piece myself but turned it off after Brendan's rather panicky attempt to deflect from the perfectly valid points being raised, and then another guest's use of the Helen Lovejoy argument - these are people etc etc.

That's true, but their problems, and more accurately personal economic goals, are not our responsibility to solve. Attempting to circumvent our already poor immigration controls by presenting as asylum seekers or refugees but really just in search of better wages/benefits and housing displays a fundamental dishonesty and willingness to exploit our generosity and support that should - in my view - instantly disqualify them entirely.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101127#Comment_122101127

Nice try but not a hope.

If our government decided in the morning to privatise, say the police force, at enormous cost, it would take from the fact that we need a police force.

There will be an up front spend on IPAs, currently it's excessive, but the alternative is worse.

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101064#Comment_122101064

I'd love to know the criteria for acceptance of an asylum seeker as a refugee. What threshold do they have to cross. I have a bad feeling it's just Carmel in the IPO office saying to herself "he seems nice", and that's it. Is it literally their acting skills in terms of the sob story they tell? Because all they have apart from that is their nationality that they claim to be.

The criteria should be in the public domain and whatever it is, that threshold for acceptance needs to be much much higher.

Then we need to abolish the "leave to remain" designation. There should only be two statuses - accepted as genuine refugee or rejected and deported immediately.

Do those two things and the numbers coming will plummet.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101129#Comment_122101129

If I get put on temporary layoff I need my credits from prsi to claim jobseekers benefit. I know the dole or Jobseeker’s Allowance as it’s officially called is different but you don’t qualify for that straight away. Not sure on what you do need to be to qualify for it.

ooter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101077#Comment_122101077

It is true but it was o'gorman who tweeted it not varadkar.

Haven't got the foreign language tweets but this is it in good old bearla.

https://twitter.com/rodericogorman/status/1365226300932304896?t=Kxu_Ds8H3-jZ06ucp8nakw&s=19

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101102#Comment_122101102

Yeah they ain't from Gaza, i can promise you that :-) The gullible Irish authorities will believe anything.

Northernlily

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101177#Comment_122101177

The public have every right to know that information. It's central to all of this.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101139#Comment_122101139

Sounds suspicious to me, where it's shared on ResearchGate, the publisher is listed as the lead authors website.

Have you a link to where the University of Amsterdam have actually published this?

You yourself shared it from the Authors website.

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101192#Comment_122101192

This information is included in the report which I presumed you had read parts of in rejecting the findings. The reason the University of Amsterdam branding is on the report is because it was published under the University of Amsterdam name as per the agreement with Statistics Netherlands. The Danish Government report has similar findings and the Danish Government has referenced this report as justification for its asylum policy. 

https://fm.dk/media/25228/indvandreres-nettobidrag-til-de-offentlige-finanser-i-2018.pdf

lawred2

What's happened here is that the fear of being labelled 'a racist' has rendered our infantile administrators incapable of making straightforward judgements on the eligibility of many of these completely bogus asylum 'seekers'.

And in a perverse and absurd twist began to label all and sundry as racists and 'far right' when any attempt was made to highlight the obvious failings and weakness of the systems they oversaw.

An administration entirely captive to and running in fear of an NGO sector funded by the same administration. It would actually make your head hurt

Jizique

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101192#Comment_122101192

Is Richard Tol not one of the authors? All the Irish journos were glad to hail him as an expert while he was here with the ESRI, before he returned to his native Holland

Kermit.de.frog

There was a guy on the news (presumably from an NGO) down by the canal and the tents saying refugees were "fleeing war and climate change".

Climate change? So how is this addition to war actually assessed and quantified?

Seems like bullsh!t.

gerogerigegege

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100712#Comment_122100712

I wouldn't think anything will happen.

They're blithering idiots and have lost the crowd completely.

gerogerigegege

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101077#Comment_122101077

Leo and Coventry legged it.

Both are responsible for this.

Absolute dangerous cowards both of them. The very worst.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101264#Comment_122101264

climate change?

sure what isn't justified by climate change at this stage?

Miharo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101264#Comment_122101264

It's always been bullshit. For the past 25 years.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101264#Comment_122101264

Its flowers like him and I see jenifer whitmore of the soc dems going oh my god we must protect these people that has us in this trouble

They are economic feckin migrants that crossed half of safe Europe to get here and basically parasite off our country

They should be kicked in the hole onto a plane to Rwanda 300 at a time,planes chartered from the Good Michael,no if's,no buts,show the UK how its done

They're so blatant about it too,giving interviews on the news telling us they're from morocco and egypt etc

No wars there and as for others,no war in any other country they crossed to get here

Sunjava

Infuriating when you break it down. Such incredible weakness.

willyvanilla

Assuming everything is innocent, which is a big assumption, it genuinely is a difficult situation to solve.

As soon as ypud build and fill a processing or holding centre, you'll have enough extra migrants on the streets to need a second centre, and then a third and fourth and...impossible.

An oil rig, large boat? Same story, you'd fill one up, there'll be more to need a second, third, fourth...impossible.

Construct an island in international waters, or buy a government contract in Mali, it'll fill up, and by the time it empties it'll be brimming and need to be expanded, ad infinitum...impossible.

Now i know what im going to say will be construed as some kind of rabid glee, but it isnt.

I just can't see any situation working other than a sheer inhospitable environment. I'm not exactly sure what that entails but handing out any amount of money or food or shelter is simply an even shittier version of the above, just encourages neverending bigger tent cities and so.

The best comparison i can make is an unwanted housemate that simply wont leave of their own accord, what will probably happen is that life will be made so unaccommodating by others theyll choose to leave. Im sure more than a few people probably have experience of this from back in the day!

Essentially, you need one of these migrants to go elsewhere, and when asked by other potential migrants about ireland they'll straight out say "ndont even try!"

Ten of Swords

@willyvanilla threadbanned

JPCN1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101278#Comment_122101278

Harris to was very quick to conflate legal and illegal immigration to suit his view and call those with concerns ‘far right’. He’s equally culpable and must go as a result. Keeping McEntee and the last week’s performance should expedite this.

Northernlily

The more people that go on the news and declare themselves from Egypt, Morrocco, Jordan, Nigeria the more the anger of the public will rise.

Roderic, Leo, Helen, et Al have been constantly telling us these are people fleeing war and persecution without a flinch. It's the case with some of them but not all as we are increasingly seeing sadly.

I wouldn't be to hard on these young fellas either - on the other side of it they have likely been sold a dream for their family by some unscrupulous trafficker.

And btw - this is a huge part of this. These traffickers are obviously saying in Ireland you'll get a house and money and everything else. All you have to do is say..... and there's a playbook. It could well be the case that there is facilitators on this side aswell that these lads will be beholden to.

The state should be interrogating some of these fella right away to find out what they've been told Ireland holds for them.

The jist of my message is, we need to get **** tough right away. All we've been doing in pussy footing around the whole thing to date.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101229#Comment_122101229

You lot will try anything...

From the translated version of the report, it seems the University of Amsterdam have tried to distance themselves utterly from this report.

"Finally, we would like to thank the University of Amsterdam (UvA) who hosted us for our research
project. Two of the researchers were seconded to the UvA. The UvA also advanced the costs of Statis-
tics Netherlands (CBS) microdata for the Renaissance Institute. Unfortunately, the UvA did not react
positively to the publication of the 1
st edition. The UvA was of the opinion that we had wrongly used
the UvA logo on the report, while this was the result of contractual obligations to publish ‘under own
name’ – i.e. the name of the UvA – which the university itself had entered into with the CBS. Co-author
professor emeritus Joop Hartog received an ultimatum at 9:30 p.m. on the day of publication: "If the
[logo] is still there tomorrow at noon, I will request the personnel department to immediately termi-
nate your hospitality [guest appointment]." The next day, the threat – after decades of loyal service to
the UvA and a glorious academic career – was carried out. Joop Hartog was also deposed as chairman
of a number of already planned PhD ceremonies. This very sordid affair even made it into the national
press.10 In the end, the UvA was unable to present any valid arguments as to why the logo should not
be on the cover of our report, and the withdrawal of Joop Hartog's guest appointment was reversed,
but no public apologies were forthcoming. The whole affair underlines how sensitive the subject of
study of this report still is and thus also the necessity of this report.
Zeist, April 2023
Jan van de Beek, Joop Hartog, Hans Roodenburg and Gerrit Kreffer"

I very strongly doubt your claims about this Dutch government report, you obviously have a very particular relationship with the truth.

rgossip30

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122100843#Comment_122100843

Your link . !!

'' If a person indicates or is identified as being in need of international protection they are admitted to the international protection process. However, they will still be recorded as a refusal of leave to land. '' .

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101480#Comment_122101480

It says essentially what I said it said…

Spanish Eyes

I suppose a Prime Time Investigates episode on this issue is out of the question.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101258#Comment_122101258

An author of what report?

Richard Toll isn't an author of the self published report shared on Gript.ie, Mankind Quarterly etc

Miharo

@Ten of Swords seems like some posts have mysteriously disappeared. I hope there is not a technical problem?

whatever.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101362#Comment_122101362

I agree to particular extents. When people say build more prisons to address more crime it solves the immediate problem but doesn't address the cause. Just like crime the best way to stop it is to ensure it doesn't pay, there is no benefit, no desire, no market, no customer, no reason.

The cheapest and best way for society to address any propblem is to ensure it doesn't happen in the first place.

In this situation we do need to build facilities but they should be located outside of the EEA no different than the facilities in Turkey for Greece and implicitly for Germany

This is not a question of compassion, it is the of succession of common sense over chaos

Geert von Instetten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122101480#Comment_122101480

The University of Amsterdam absolutely attempted to disavow its involvement in the report, that is arguably indicative of the deteriorating social dialogue that led the Dutch Government to terminate economic reports on the relationship between immigration and economy in the first instance. Regardless, the findings of the report are consistent with a report published by the Danish Government and while you have commented on the report quite considerably, those comments have extended to the circumstances around the publication of the report only - have you any comments on the content of the report (appreciating that you obviously neglected to read the first few pages of the report until prompted to…) criticism of the methodology etc.?