If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Hello All, This is just a friendly reminder to read the Forum Charter where you wish to post before posting in it. :)
Hi all, The AutoSave Draft feature is now disabled across the site. The decision to disable the feature was made via a poll last year. The delay in putting it in place was due to a bug/update issue. This should serve as a reminder to manually save your drafts if you wish to keep them. Thanks, The Boards Team.
Hello all! This is just a quick reminder to ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere.

Dev role at late 50's?

  • 27-01-2023 3:37pm
    Registered Users Posts: 27 carlandlenny

    Hi, I posted about this in the Work and Jobs section, but have an additional question that is more suited here.

    I've been self employed doing web development the last 25 years and now looking for a job. Since I'm out of the job market so long I've no idea what it's like to work a regular job in development.

    Originally, I was looking to move into a BA or PM role, but getting no success there. I spoke to an agency and the guy there was pushing me to rework my CV to aim for a dev role.

    I develop in the LAMP environment, with JQuery and Bootstrap for the front. Thing is, I just use procedural instead of OOP, I've never had any reason to switch over.

    I assume this will be a problem? Or not?

    Reason I wanted to do BA or PM was I feel programing is a young person's game and I might not be fast enough. What is the average "production rate" expected of a developer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭ dazberry

    I don't work on the LAMP stack so I don't know what that specific market is like. I would suggest you look at LAMP jobs on the likes of linkedin/irishjobs/indeed/monster etc. and get a feel for what the market is like and what the most common requirements are. While you've flagged OOP specifically, that may not be the issue. The breadth of requirements in IT roles (even beyond the coding elements) can be quite wide depending on the company.

    If OOP is an issue, you now have a reason now to change - just because you haven't done - doesn't mean you can't. Whether it's refactoring an old project, or starting a new one try get some hands on experience so that in an interview situation you can talk about it "from experience". If there are gaps in your knowledge, there are so many resources on the internet that can help you.

    Beyond OOP as I've alluded to already, the breadth of IT dev roles can be quite wide but it depends on the company. Try and find a bit of commonality, a lot of IT job specs. are just plain wankery, figure what the common core requirements are across the varies specs. If you have done it for 25 years there's a lot of stuff you do know. The trick here is to know how to talk about it as being relevant in the present tense. If a common thing is working agile/scrum for instance and you never worked that way! firstly learn what it's about, secondly look at how you used to work, as a one man shop you may have worked in an agile fashion even if it wasn't formal scrum iterations. But maybe, you iterated short cycles with your customers and tried to have some deliverable every couple of weeks to get constant feedback ;)

    Is programming a young person's game. Yes and no. "Production Rate" is not a factor. The factor is ideally about being open to continual improvement (whether that is actually true in real terms), open to collaboration and open to change. Experience doesn't always teach us the best lessons, and we end up closing off from things, whether it's that we found a comfort zone, life priorities change, or just that the next new things is a fad like that old thing!

    But if you were looking at BA or PM, and it's not working, maybe look at scrum training. One of my favourite agile talks :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,981 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo

    Do you actually like developing?

    If you do its strange to me that you would try to switch to BA/PM roles as they are totally different skillsets imo.

    Really the level of "production output" is only an issue when you are in a junior role, the things you will be given to do will be easy enough and not require much supervision, so you will be expected to problem solve yourself and get stuff done.

    The more experience you have (and hence more senior role) its much more about quality than quantity as you will be solving problems and creating designs that others simply cannot.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27 carlandlenny

    @dazberry Thanks for your detailed reply. I agree with what you say having read the job postings on the sites you mention. And perhaps some buzzword compliance too.

    And yes, it's true that that in an informal way I work in an agile manner, as you say to show the client progress is being made, like show a user registration/login screen at an early stage (and to get paid in increments too!).

  • Registered Users Posts: 27 carlandlenny

    @GreeBo Do I like development, not really anymore, or anything IT really, but been thinking for last few months and can't think of anything else that I realistically might do from zero at my age. I guess I could stick it out for another 8/10 years tho.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,535 ✭✭✭ DublinWriter

    Of a similar vintage to your good self. Being in IT now is like living in a Dilbert cartoon. The industry has become so specialised in terms of roles that you'll find yourself doing pretty much rote and maintenance work if you're coding.

    As Kenneth Williams used to say "everyone's getting better at less and less!". Most large internal IT Departments I've worked with recently are comprised of about 60%-70% not technical people. Failed middle-managers, admins and Powerpoint jockeys posing as architects or BAs.

    Yes, I'm old and bitter!

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭ moycullen14

    I'd be very similar, if not a bit older. Been working in financial IT for the last while and it's years since I saw an algorithmic problem. There's very little proper technical management anymore - it's admin and process for the most part. Can't decide whether to wait it out for the next few years or take the plunge. At bottom, though, very little has changed. The skills that were useful 30 years ago are still the skills you need today. Write tidy code, understand requirements and don't leave a mess for the next guy. Of course, nobody wants these skills, they want the latest frameworks, buzz phrases and general boll*xology.

    Old and bitter? Oh, yes

  • Registered Users Posts: 25,981 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo

    I've been writing code for over 20 years and I am still developing and designing, not in any way working by rote!

    OP if you are just doing it for something to do, then expect a very junior position and you might struggle to get that.

    You might fare better at a contracting role, where you can choose your rates to make sure you get work, but that will be a 9-5 working on a specific, possibly boring thing.

    Companies hiring junior developers typically want people who will grow into more senior roles, there is always room for some who will just churn out work, but not too many in my experience.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,833 ✭✭✭ The_B_Man

    I got an email today about a Tech jobs fair in Dublin next week. I wonder would it be worth your while going to one and talking to some companies and seeing what they'd require for a PM role? The one I got the email about was called Tech Nomads. I've absolutely no idea about it, and won't be going but the link is:

    I'm sure there's others going on at the same time but said I'd share this one. As I said above, you might get better feedback direct from tech companies themselves.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27 carlandlenny

    @The_B_Man Thanks for that, just registered.