Cost of 1 day cycling licence

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This discussion was created from comments split from: Cycling Ireland?.

The Davestator

I see CI are increasing the day licence from €10 to €20 from February. It wasn't that long ago it was €2 so a 1000% increase in a few years. It wont be good for participation of occasional leisure cycling people and the events they do.

Usual guff about costs, even though insurance costs are going down in Ireland.

AxleAddict

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120154633#Comment_120154633

Yeah - when I started cycling in 2016 it was €5 for a day license (which I thought was reasonable enough - although I ended up getting an annual license anyway), then it went up to €10 a few years back, and now it's gonna be €20 a pop! Will be cheaper just to go for the annual license if you intend to participate in 3 or more CI events throughout the year, but I do think they're taking the mick doubling the cost again so soon after the last one.

magicbastarder

is that due to insurance costs? it might be outside their control.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120156318#Comment_120156318

I don't think there is much in their control, ODLs (I strongly suspect) are more expensive from the insurance company, they would only be raising them in line with the insurance provider. Same way for me to insure a van for a weekend, is almost 1/3 the cost of insuring one for a whole year.

magicbastarder

mod - i've split this out from the zombie thread it was posted in

Mercian Pro

The statement on the CI website makes no mention of rising insurance costs but says "This is a necessary step brought about by increased costs and inflationary pressure which has been experienced by organisations nationwide." If they are short of funds in CI, I strongly suspect consultants and legal fees are probably a bigger drain on the budget.

It's great to see that CI's own Leisure Commission have come out strongly against the increase. Hopefully clubs, who often rely on income from annual sportives, will oppose it too.

Large bottle small glass

I've been meaning to do a FOI request for a while; I'll report how that goes.

My suspicion is that leisure membership and their insurance contribution makes racing insurance viable but hard to know without the data.

This feels like trying to squeeze another egg out of the golden goose but who knows for sure.

ratracer

Although I’m a long time member of CI, I think this increase is disgraceful and without proper foundation. The extra €10 insurance was slipped into Leisure memberships a few years ago, when previous to that it was included in the fee.

How can a 100% cost increase be justified?

Will/ can organisations or clubs just run sportives without CI backing? The one and only reason I paid for CI (Leisure) membership this year was to stay a member of my club, I don’t see any value in it other than that requirement.

magicbastarder

based on hearing about insurance issues in two (non-cycling related) organisations i'm a member of, i'd be astounded if insurance issues and costs weren't a pain in the hoop for CI.

Cionn

I wonder if this was part of the discussion at the CI AGM last year. So much for encouraging people to get insurance and help cover for accidents. I don't see how this can align with their intention of "getting people cycling". The cost has risen from €2-€20 in less than 10 years, also the CI insurance is now a bolt on €10 when getting your annual membership. In addition to this I believe (but others can correct me if I am wrong) the cover has been downgraded.

I did hear of one situation , where there was a clear cut accident on a Sportive from two CI members and the insurance assessors still chased one party as they knew they had reasonable funding.

This has intrigued me enough to look at their website to see whats there:

Per their Strategic Plan 2020-2024

"Strategic Pillar One Deliver the best cycling participation experiences and environment to grow and sustain the number of people cycling in Ireland"

Having looked at the plan, this may be related to 1.1.5 "Growth of membership numbers through attraction of new members and retention of existing members"

So make it cheaper to join CI if you participate in 3+ Sportive's and get your KPI's up, job done.

Mefistofelino

CI is a racing organisation underwritten by the non-racing membership. The accounts have shown this story for some years now. The income from racing licences and racing sponsorship didn't cover the cost of promoting racing last time I checked and I doubt the situation has improved. I seem to recall- but will stand corrected on this- that the racing licence holders also made a greater number of insurance claims.

If an Irish version of Cycling UK was established, it could spell trouble for CI. The membership costs are similar but the benefits appear greater and they do a lot more in terms of cycling advocacy.

mh_cork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120158332#Comment_120158332

This ^^^^^

I as a club cyclist have to take out C.I. membership, and in doing so I am subsidising the activity of a small number of cyclists (i.e. racing). Cycling Ireland does not advocate for the leisure cyclist and does nothing for those commuting by bike. The only advocate for commuting by bike is by local city groups.

In 2022, they added a 10 euro levy to Munster cyclists that is for the benefit of racing. The irony is that those that would benefit from this (i.e. those that take out competition licenses) only had a 5 euro levy!

https://www.cyclingireland.ie/news-item/cycling-munster-implement-additional-5-levy/

This is not a dig at racing cyclists - I respect anyone who is willing to toe the line at a race. But 95% of cyclists have no interest in racing and we are being treated as a cash cow. And no, subsidising racing does not promote cycling or lead to a trickle down effect. There are far better (and cheaper) ways to encourage an up-take in cycling.

dahat

Munster levy is a joke when you look at the Munster racing calendar. It’s a joke.

€166 all in including club fees for a racing license this year is relatively cheaper compared €75 for a leisure license as most lads would get 10 plus races in a year.

Tigerandahalf

The athletics association of Ireland have also done similar. Unless you are registered with a club you will now have to pay an additional amount to enter a race. Just a cash grab.

I only do 1 or 2 sportives a year and I am just not going to bother with them anymore.

I paid 71eur for Tour de Conamara this year. 11eur for the 1 day licence including a 1eur card charge. It will be 81eur now next year.

Pick a nice sunny day and head out on your own or with a group.

Weepsie

It's also a bit of a pisstake that it's happened now after a few have already gone on sale.

CramCycle

No one's gonna like me saying it but CI is a members organisation. I've been to half the AGMs in the past few years and you know what, f*CK all clubs attending and putting motions forward for leisure members. I feel sorry for the leisure commission as on paper they have the most support but other than the chair of Audax Ireland giving them all a deserved swift kick in the B*llicks down in Kerry, I didn't hear any others standing up from other clubs.

You want change, put forward a motion at the AGM to limit ODL for the next 5 years and rally the troops at every club, otherwise it will happen again. CI is bound by motions, either a fixed ODL is affordable for 5 years or the organisation tanks but unless you turn up at the AGM then you really can't complain. 99% of those there are from racing backgrounds, until you mandate your clubs otherwise, put forward other motions, then there isn't much else to say.

Weepsie

Was an increase discussed at the AGM if they are so bound?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120163098#Comment_120163098

Not sure but if it's not discussed and voted I imagine they have free reign.

DonegalBay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162439#Comment_120162439

Surely the leisure commission is there to represent on behalf of the leisure end of things, yet they were not even consulted on this price increase. What is the point of a leisure commission if it is not involved in decisions regarding the leisure end of cycling? If this was brought up at the AGM, would the leisure commission not have said something at that time?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120164319#Comment_120164319

Was it brought up? They are only a commission and while they can influence and direct, if senior management take a decision, the leisure commission need the members to turn up at the AGM and vote on it. CI undoubtedly have done this multiple times without consequence so I get why they did again. One of the big flaws of CI is that the AGM effectively acts as a defacto road commission AGM as well, so hence decisions are taken that are heavily swayed by racing members as those are the ones who turn up.

Next year, put a motion in to get it frozen or reduced, and then rally support. The other option would be similar but to petition the leisure commission to object to this, if enough clubs come forward, they will have to row back on it as they run the risk of outrage at the next AGM.

Patches oHoulihan

Are they all powerful?

I do events like RIng of Clare and Tour De Connemara etc- ill not be paying 20 on top of the entry fee next year

easygoing39

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120164384#Comment_120164384

Well by next year a 1 day might be back down to €10 if enough members get motions raised for this years AGM.

Grassey

Sounds like we need to split the disciplines like the UK.

Cycling Ireland / British cycling for competitive cycling.

CyclingUK (previously CTC) / *new Ireland non-racing*

magicbastarder

may or may not be a similar issue - all motorbike road racing in NI has been cancelled for 2023 because of insurance costs?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-64591498

easygoing39

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222866#Comment_120222866

And there'll be no motorbike racing in the Republic this year either!! Cycling Ireland's insurance must have went up too.

CramCycle

I'd be interested for someone to run the numbers of leisure Vs Racer as the difference in license cost is immense. The cheapest racing license is 80% higher than a leisure license and the full racing 160% more. How many more leisure riders are there, do they outweigh all other licences at more than 2 to 1.

Insurance has skyrocketed, that is a fact, which group claims the most. I see accidents in races but I've never been to a leisure event bar audaxes where someone wasn't taken away in an ambulance. Maybe ask CI to get a ppt from the insurance company like they did in Monaghan. My limited experience is anecdoetal but I imagine the cost from leisure is substantially more but I could be wrong.

Again, and I mean this with no disrespect, all of the above aside (and I could hazard a guess, I don't think the numbers will show what people think, I don't think leisure members are keeping the organisation a float). You want change, get to the AGM and vote for it. I would ask that you fully research it as I have seen outraged people turn up at the AGM saying such and such is a disgrace but then a board member stands up and gives the real numbers which often quietens many.

As for the Munster and Ulster extra charge, those were provincial AGM choices. If you don't like them, go to your next provincial AGM and rally the troops as it doesn't go to CI.

Macy0161

Having been on a club committee a number of years, even attendance at club agm's is an issue, never mind CI agm's. (And that applies to Unions, and any other clubs I am, or have been, a member of).

As has been pointed out, sports are just the next "victim" of insurance increases. It was before I joined, but wasn't that part of why the vets came back under the CI umbrella?

I'm still in a whatsapp group with non-club members, and after the initial reaction they kinda calmed down, with the fact the ODL can be off set, the cycle superstore voucher, the VIP membership.

fwiw I went LC this year rather than full racing. Basically my funds at the time - if there's a subsidy from Leisure to Racing, well it certainly isn't making racing more affordable!

Large bottle small glass

18000 leisure v 4000 full competition.

Given the comments on here about rule breaking, sprint finishes, lads with loads of power but no group bike racing skills I'm not sure how you would construct and argument that leisure is the more high risk category.

My guess is racing is unsustainable without the numbers taking out leisure licences underwriting it.

It'd be a short queue looking for the racing market as a standalone group.

The only thing that makes it viable is the cover is sh1t and the relatively large leisure membership.

Cycling Ireland couldn't give me the breakdown in claims per category surprise surprise

Macy0161

The perception is racing is more dangerous, but at the same time there's been serious incidents in sportives in recent years, including at least one fatality. I'm not an actuary, so no idea how these things are calculated - leisure members are insured for the likes of club spins as well as events, does more kilometers overall = more risk for insurance companies?

CramCycle

So back of the envelope, maybe well off, is 90k from leisure Vs 52k from racing. So 36% of the membership income is generated by 18% of the membership. HP and similar is government grants and must be spent on those areas.

That 142k would barely cover admin costs for the organisation, while I doubt they do it, I do wonder which group takes up the most time.

Leisure and Racing events are effectively self funded.

All this aside, unless clubs start voting for changes for leisure riders , nothing will happen. At the last AGM I attended, I noted only one leisure only member who spoke, and there were several members who are leisure in license but are only there for the sport. Now the leisure cyclist who spoke gave a rousing speech in favour of improving things for leisure cyclists but it didn't change the fact that they were the only ones speaking for leisure riders.