oil boiler lockout

bwildered

Hi All,

I am an ordinary householder. I was wondering if any of the information here would be helpful in diagnosing a problem. My boiler is 13 years old. It is a kitchen model.

From day one the photo cell caused problems. I continuously cleaned it and have used a replacement recently.

The boiler is regularly serviced. Oil never runs low. A few years ago the pump started to keep running on all night so I switched the boiler off at its main switch to save energy.

at the same time the boiler would cycle on and off continuously but no valves would open for heating or hot water. I would just cycle within the boiler. The boiler heats very quickly so no problem with heating or hot water there. It is a two zone system. The system call up is RF. which appears to be working. I am currently running my system on a one hour manual basis as I have more control over power usage that way. The system pipework is interlinked with a solid fuel boiler but not electrically.

Have had various inspections carried out without a successful fix including electrician who swapped out a motorized valve. I was also told the wiring layout was correct. Last service Plumber replaced the pump and hard wired the pump to switch off when boiler cycled off with no over-run. (no baffle cleaning done that I was aware of at that time.)

This appeared to work and the boiler stopped cycling also. (There may be more than one issue here.)

Two weeks later and Now the boiler locks out. It will fire most of the time on a reset and will do a full heating cycle and sometimes will automatically fire again for another cycle within the manual one hour period without a reset. Sometimes on a reset it will fire for a short period 10 seconds or so and then lockout. Other occasions it will run to the point of ignition and lockout. Other times it will lockout immediately. The air supply duct was open to take air from inside the unit as a trial but promptly replaced the next day due to internal odours in the utility room. Should I say goodbye to this boiler.

Wearb

Make and model of the boiler? Do you have a combustion report from the previous few services? Why did the electrician change the valve, did he diagnose a fault? Post some pics of the boiler and the area that the flue exits.

Unless it's leaking, then I'd keep the boiler and maybe say goodbye to the guys trying to fix it.

bwildered

Hi, Many thanks for your reply.

Find attached combustion report from the 29 Nov 2022.

The Boiler is a Firebird C26 Kitchen running on Kero

Electrician said the valve was not switching. (I held on to it) I recall a previous inspector said it was also a valve problem and broke off the plastic slider mechanism ( see photo). There is a very slight water leak (see photo) on one of the pump isolation valves since it was changed in November last year ,I am told it is not of concern , to fix it will require draining the whole system, said it may stop of its own accord. The boiler looks in very good dry condition with no oil leaks. Last inspector said the next try was to replace the control unit - €200-300..

I appreciate you taking an interest in my Boiler problem. I hope the information helps.

Kind Regards.

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Wearb

What month was that combustion analysis from?

Do you have nozzle type and pump pressure?

Are the baffles taken out and cleaned each service? Any of them damaged?

jimf

from your print out that boiler is way under aired

as its not even up to temp

at full operating temp i would never leave a firebird boiler above 11.2% co2

John.G

Is there a significant difference in readings between a hot and cold boiler with every thing else in order ie clean baffles/flueways etc.

bwildered

Combustion analysis taken Sept -Nov 22.

Nozzle type see attached photos of replacement nozzle 0.65 replaced Sept 22- Pump pressure - I don't know

Baffles not taken out at every service (see photos of baffles as Sept 22.)

Unfortunately as I have said in the intro. I an an ordinary householder with no plumbing experience but

with a very annoying boiler.

Regards,

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John.G

jimf and others will advise but its very important that the baffles and especially the tubular baffles in the condensing section are taken out and cleaned. Also condenate trap.

Wearb

Overall it doesn't look too bad, assuming pump pressure is fine.

Personally I'd use a .6 nozzle and fire it at its lowest rate for that (c26) boiler. I'd certainly remove and clean both lots of baffles and boiler annually.

There seems to be a leak from the condensate trap. There might even be an inadvertent second trap where the pipe dips under the copper pipe.

Also it needs to be brought up to temperature before doing the test and co2 reduced (all as said by JimF)

BTW it's the side of the baffles that we cannot see in the pics that are most prone to damage.

Wearb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120154310#Comment_120154310

I've never tested a cold boiler, but have stuck the probe in as it was coming up to temperature. I've noticed a fall in Co and a rise in co2. All very small amounts, but as I said, it would be coming up to running temperature anyway.

Perhaps Jim is more observant....

jimf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120154310#Comment_120154310

nothing too major john

but with a boiler like a he c26 firebird what i have noticed is a rise in the co2 which in this boiler can mean the difference between a sooty boiler and a clean one

my rule of thumb set stat to lowest setting when boiler cuts out turn stat up fully and then do your adjustments

golden rule never leave it running above 11.2% co2

you might loose a little in efficiency but better than a sooter

jimf

that condensate trap needs to be changed for the stainless trap asap

the fact it hasnt tells me you need a new pair of eyes servicing your boiler

they are not a hard boiler to set up and get running smoothly

Lenar3556

Ref some of the initial photos - Is the two flexi’s simply looped into the oil line without the use of a de-aerator ok?

John.G

Definitely think somethg like this should be somewhere, normally external?. vent may be choked?.

Wearb

Yes. It might even be slightly beneficial because the recirculation through the pump slightly warms the oil.

Personally I wouldn't bother doing it.

bwildered

Thanks for all the comments.

A number of posts mentioned the cleaning of the baffles and condensate trap. Am I to understand that dirty baffles will cause a lockout..

Would cleaning them be a recommended first step?

The boiler lockout only started after the last service and pump replacement. As I mentioned before the pump used to run on for long periods of time

and I usually switched the main switch off to save energy. The pump is now wired to switch when the boiler switches off. At the moment the pump will switch on as normally expected run for a while then the fan will blow and then the boiler fires about 15- 20 secs later.There are no unusual sounds. Only problem is sometimes it will lockout. Lockout can happen at any stage but will reset. Would it point to an electrical issue. Are PCB boards prone to failure on this type of boiler c26 kitchen.

I have checked the condensate drain and all seems to be working .There is an air gap at the top of the reservoir and the condensate appears to flow freely..

There is not much space for a Tiger loop or Magnetic filter beside this boiler.

So in summery ,

The boiler does not lack fuel,

Not sure about boiler pressure . I could have this checked . I could start switching out this and that but without a diagnosis I end up spending the cost of a new boiler!!

Th RF system seems to be ok.

I was told that the air pressure may affect this boiler and it was suggested that the air intake and fan outlet should be separated.?

I am not aware that anything was done during the service to affect this.

That leaves the printed circuit board bearing in mind that the water pump kept running on and the boiler used to cycle and fire with no heating or hot water ie. motorised valves did not open.??? That does not seem to be a problem since the water pump was switched out.

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John.G

Is the oil level in your tank at a high,low or very low level just now? Did it always have a recirculation line back to the tank? We're the flexible hoses replaced recently?

bwildered

Hi

Boiler Serviced 29th. Nov 22. New nozzle. New boiler door seal. New hoses . New Water pump. Lockout started about a week or so after that.

Oil tank filled from 25% to 75% on 16 Jan. So tank at high level right now.. There is only one oil line from the oil tank to the boiler if that is what you mean.

Yes I think both flexible hoses were replaced. Actually a very small section of the copper oil supply line is exposed to the outside where it enters the house - about 4 inches of it .It has been exposed for the life of the boiler -13 years.

jimf

just having got totally confused i decided to read your first post again

if i was to hazard a guess i would say burner control box

the intermittent nature of going to lockout without making an attempt to fire is pointing me towards above

the lead in time to combustion is fairly nailed on at 12/13 seconds

btw where are you based

jimf

could also be slipping oil pump but i think would be more troublesome at this stage

bwildered

Thanks for the feedback,

Boiler been firing no problem for last 2 days .Lockout on start this morning? Started on 3th. reset press

John.G

Maybe convert back to a one pipe oil system, remove the recirculation line at the pump, ensure the by pass insert plug is removed and blank off the recirculation port at the pump. Or/and check oil pump pressures while the burner is both purging and firing, might show up something.

Wearb

It sounds like it could be over aired. That's why baffles need removing and cleaning every service. A damaged baffle will allow combustion gasses to flow more easily through the boiler, that can produce over airing.

That is not something that can be properly checked without an Analyser.

jimf

control box needs to be ruled out

classic symptom but no way to test without changing

you need somebody who has all parts in van

somebodude

i have had lockout issues that were caused by sludge buildup in the radiators

bwildered

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184388#Comment_120184388

Based in Arklow