Considerations for buying new running shoes

Ceepo · 19-01-2023 9:29pm #1

As runner's the topic of buy new runnning shoes is never far from our minds, whether your a seasoned pro like some of the pros on here or just new to running. When you consider the way manufacturers and technology are always evolving you can easily be forgiven for been dragged down a huge rabbit hole and be left confused.

I thought it might be handy to give a few pointers that maybe helpful to some people to try make the decision a little easier.

One of the biggest myths that surround running shoes is..... there is a "right shoe for you based of gait analysis" let me say that again a little different, getting a pair of shoes that "suit your running style" is a myth. Most of the shoe manufacturers have gone away form the stability " over pronation", neutral, structured categories of shoes, while some still call them structured, they only bare a slight resemblance the motion control of years ago and have for the most part stopped using the term. Pronation is a natural occurring part of shock absorption, and there is NO science based protocol to identify the specific term "over pronation ". To add to this, there is NO evidence to say that "over pronation " what ever that is, has been shown to have a increased risk of injury.

Also you can not and should not try to evaluate your running style from the ware pattern on your old existing shoes. As it will only tell you what's happening at the sole and it will not take into account what is happening further up in the kinetic chain.

Weight of a shoe should always be considered, the lighter the shoe the less you will fatigue your muscles. For every 100gr you add 1% energy penalty. Remember Nike super shoes had a scientifically proven average 4 % energy return. The materials especially in the shoe uppers can hold a lot of moisture and water especially in wet conditions, so look for a shoe with less absorbing fabric to help minimise carrying extra weight.

Runner's gets injured. Approximately 52% of men and 49% women will pick up an injury. But don't let that put you off. Approximately 30% of couch potatoes get injured as well.

There is NO shoe ever produced that will prevent injuries, some might reduce the risk but there's very little evidence to back up that claim. Nike did a study with one pair of there shoes " Infinity React" that did show a reduction of approximately 50% over their structured shoe ( that no longer has a duel density sole), although it was a small study so I'm not sure what weight it holds, but credit for at least doing a study. One way to help mitigate injuries from running is to run in various different shoes and terrain/surfaces. This will slightly change the load placed on muscles

Shoe ware is does not reflection on the loss of shock absorption. So a shoe that may well look good, might in fact be dead cushion wise. A general rule of thumb, 1st 200k it will loose some shock absorption, and then stabilise for the next 400 to 600k, and will probably be past there best after that so approximately 800k. Of course some people will get shorter ware or longer ware from their shoes but it is a guide to work from. More cushioning doesn't necessarily mean less impact. "Softer midsole resulted in higher vertical force" Nigg et al 2000. That landing force doesn't go away. It is absorbed somewhere in the kinetic chain.

So where does all this leave us you ask?

When picking your next pair of runners, the top 3 things to aim for should be

1, Lightweight.

2, Comfort,

3, Flexibility.

Rotating shoes frequently will allow the cushioning to decompress. Consider wearing different shoes for different types of running sessions and races, this will a give different stimulus to your working muscles.

One last point.

Materials degrade over time, even in the box. So don't expect the same performance out of the 2/3 year old pair that you had hidden from your partner🤣 . So stockpiling may not be the best idea even if they were a bargin.

Happy shopping and running 😀

Wottle · 19-01-2023 11:21pm

Thanks very much @Ceepo excellent tips

py · 20-01-2023 9:00am

Great information. Do you think it is worth covering stack height/drop etc too?

Trampas · 20-01-2023 11:16am

I wear max cushion shoes for my easy/recovery like new balance more and Nike invincible. These are not lightweight but l protect your legs due to the cushion.

Really depends on what your shoe is used for.

BeepBeep67 · 20-01-2023 12:35pm

I would even put comfort as number 1 on the list, when you try on a shoe and it just feels right, it probably is, and that will differ from runner to runner.

I do tend to purchase runners on the lighter side, if I look at the top 10 shoes in terms of mileage last year (1.8k of 3k miles), the average weight was 219 grams (UK sz. 10).

Flexibility, not sure of the exact point here. Flexibility as in usage across pace, distance and terrain or a flexible sole. If the former, I believe in horses for courses for the majority of my shoes but do always have a few do-it-alls that come in handy for travel.

HerrKuehn · 20-01-2023 2:06pm

I really just tried a few different types when I started running, eventually settling on Asics Nimbus as my favourite (around Nimbus 7 at the time). I have probably bought around 50 pairs of them at this point and still happy enough.

Bluesquare · 20-01-2023 2:07pm

“Materials degrade over time, even in the box. So don't expect the same performance out of the 2/3 year old pair that you had hidden from your partner🤣 . So stockpiling may not be the best idea even if they were a bargin.”

Not great news !!

Thanks for the above information I better start rotating the stock pile ! I have just been buying whatever the Deals and Vouchers thread tells me to!

Bgiraffe · 20-01-2023 2:35pm

Interesting stuff. Currently working with a physio who also does some running coach and he made two interesting points which I'm currently trying to decode and see what relevance they have to me!

Firstly, he was making the point that running shoes (like all shoes) have become increasingly narrow over the years - not a good development for how the toes should naturally sit. He suggested a company to me which manufactures what would be considered extremely wide fitting traininers, to allow the toes to spread out as they're naturally meant to.

The other point he made was that with the huge amounts of cushioning on shoes now, it gives very little feedback of how you're hitting the ground. He is an elite runner himself and was saying he ran by a window/reflection recently and noticed how poorly his feet were actually striking the ground with the heavily cushioned shoes allowing him to do so without realising it.

Ceepo · 20-01-2023 6:57pm

Just for clarification, my original post was only a guideline and was never meant to be definitive guide. Also the 3 main points weren't in any order of importance. There is no doubt in my mind that comfort is by far the most important aspect of any shoe. If the shoe is not comfortable, well you're just not going to wear it no matter how good its supposed to be.

I have often equated the subject of running shoes to food. Some people will like spicy, oriental, or just bacon and cabbage. None of it is wrong, just some people prefer different things. What you find comfortable someone else might not. It's a very personal choice

Re stack height. We know that different shoe companies have different heights. I think some of this is down to the materials used in there construction. We know for example Vapor fly next ٪ have a stack height of 39.5 in the heal and 35.5 in the toe. I believe that the reason for such height is down to the PEBAX foam and its energy return, more foam meas more energy return. The trade off was it lacked stability, so that's were the carbon plate came into play to offer better stability. Some people wrongfully believed that the most benefits came from the carbon plate. Nike published stats that the foam offered 0.318 watts/per kg compared to the plate offering 007 Watts/per kg. We also know that other range a lot from Hoka carbon x 32mm height with 5mm drop up to Adizero adios pro 39.5 height with a 10mm drop. So while there is a variance it's within a small enough range, in the super shoe category anyway. I did come across some information a while ago that 10mm heal elevation resulted in progressive increase in peak vertical force. So based on that informattion I wouldn't go above the. But again this is only 1 piece of information and might need more context or further follow up research.

@Bgiraffe I briefly touched on the cushioning element of shoes in the OP. " More cushioning doesn't necessarily mean less impact. "Softer midsole resulted in higher vertical force" Nigg et al 2000. That landing force doesn't go away. It is absorbed somewhere in the kinetic chain." Also from an other study, although it was walking not running. " Shod walking lead to longer stance phase, greater dorsiflexion, larger peak vertical force and higher transmission velocity in achilles tendon than barefoot walking. NIGG et all 2017 . Here is another good read https://bmjopensem.bmj.com/content/6/1/e000577.

I'm not sure if runner's and shoes have actually got smaller maybe they have, I don't honestly know. I do know however that the majority of running shoe manufacturers only use one or maybe two lasts models to base all their shoes on. This is a flat last model which basically makes it easy for them to reproduce shoes on a mass scale, ( this is important if you're producing 25 pair a second x 24 hrs x 365 days like Nike) there are some companies now using more of an anatomical last, this is more for court and field sports to allow for ease of sideways movement to reflect the specific requirements of the sport. But I wouldn't disagree that the feet should have some room to move naturally.

@BeepBeep67 I was talking more on the flexibility of the shoe more that how versatile they are. I think that more manufacturers are heading down the more sport specific road with their shoes, and probably for good reason. Every sport will have "some " specific needs over other sports. We can easily see that with super shoes now, they're great in a straight line, not so good on tight twisting courses.

gifted · 20-01-2023 8:45pm

Hiya,

Apologies if im in the wrong place but any suggestions for a pair of runners that an overweight male can use for walking...looking at asics gel kayano 27 ...wondering if they offer good comfort?

Thanks

G.

Ceepo · 21-01-2023 12:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135925#Comment_120135925

To be honest, only you can decide if a pair of runners are comfortable for you. Asice Kayano are good runners but usually come at a premium price, are they worth that price over and above any other shoes, I can't say. In terms of the first part of the question. I can't say that ANY specific pair of shoes are better than the next for someone that might be overweight. Most of the non super shoes use Eva foam in the mid sole and while they will have different upper the mid sole will usually perform similar. I'm not sure where you're based but I'd suggest heading into a a shop and trying on a few pairs.

Just don't be guided into buying a shoe based on "gait analysis"

Edit Sorry if this doesn't answer your question

babacool · 21-01-2023 5:28pm

There isn’t really much to add. A great Post and I probably agree with most of it.

rotating shoes is key. Don’t get used to one pair. Let your muscles adapt to different runners that require different techniques and styles. It’s basically the same as running on the Track all the time vs mixing up the terrain.

cushioned shoes I would use for easy runs only (mostly). Just to enhance the recovery (even if it may only be in the Head). workouts I would use stiff soles with responsive foam. It shouldn’t feel “comfortable” on the warm down but like hitting the road barefooted. Again works your muscles in a different way.

heavy vs light shoes. I’m a firm believer in Training in heavy shoes and put the light ones on for races. It will feel like you are flying!

stack height I got to admit never really bothered looking into that. I just bought the shoes that I liked not worrying about the height or drop. I’m not elite and never noticed any difference in a 5mm drop and a 10mm drop. My opinion here is “20km into a run it becomes a 0mm drop anyways” 😁 might not be true but that’s how it always feels like.

gait analysis - never done one and never will do one! My stride and style will always change from shoe to shoe. Whatever it requires to make the shoe work. I’m not eluid or Jim who have the shoes designed around their needs. So yea I agree there is no perfect shoe for me. It’s all about can j adjust to make the shoe right!

FinnC · 21-01-2023 6:16pm

I only buy red shoes as they make me faster.

Ceepo · 21-01-2023 6:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139319#Comment_120139319

I hope you realise that if you have red shoes to make you faster you will need at least 2 white stripes on them. This will make you even faster still 😉

Ps, this is not backed up by science though 🤣