Flag in or out?

token56

From speaking with people out on the course I've found some have very strong opinions on this one way or the other. Do you putt with the flag in or out or do you care? In theory is there a better option?

Personally I can feel comfortable with both but there is a few different factors I consider. If there are windy conditions when the flag might be bouncing around I will take it out, also generally anything inside 6 foot I will take it as I've had a few bounce outs in the past which I think wouldn't have happened if the flag wasn't in. Also if I'm playing in something like a scramble or even match play I take it out a bit more often because I feel I can have a bit more of "a go" without risking it bouncing out. But then maybe the chances of it dropping is higher than it bouncing out?

I do think for most people it is most psychological but interested to hear opinions.

willabur

has it not been definitively proven that it is better to have the flag out of the hole?

Personally I am happy for it to be out on longer putts but I have had a few recently that bounced off the pole and away. Anything I feel I can make I have it out

ShivasIrons

There's plenty of data that shows leaving it in is better but the odds haven't increased greatly. The difficulty with all data is that most look at singular circumstances to justify their position rather than over a period of occurrences. And with all singular occurrences you will have balls both hitting the flag strongly and going in when it would have flown by and also bouncing out when it would have dropped in with no flag.

I leave it in on longer putts - easier to see the hole and take it out on shorter putts - prefer it with no flag in.

Also, giving a putt 'a go' is a bad idea, the faster the speed of the putt at a hole the smaller the effective hole side, some putts that are short of the hole have much less wrong with them than a putt flying six feet by.

spacecoyote

These guys are pretty firm in the leave it in camp

I tend to leave it in unless there is a strong lean on the pin. The 8th in my home course has a tall pin as its a par 5 and downhill to the green.

I tend to take that one out, but that's it

spacecoyote

https://youtu.be/31KsBFdDhhc

From above

Deporhostia

Fascinating stuff on that video.

What I can't get my head around, is how do off-centre strikes have a greater chance of dropping if the pin is left in?

I would have thought they would have a good chance of hitting the flag and bouncing out, whereas if the pin was out they would have more 'space' to drop.

Maybe is it because hitting the flag slows it down sufficiently to enable it to drop, even if it deflects it a bit, whereas with no pin in there is nothing to slow it down?

spacecoyote

That would be my thinking alright, you would end up lipping out without the pin there?

Russman

My preference was/is always for the pin to be out on anything inside say 15-20 feet. Longer than that and I just leave it in. During COVID however I got used to the pin being in all the time and now it doesn't really bother me either way, I tend to go with whatever the rest of the guys I'm playing with want if it means we all do the same.

I might become more insistent on pin out this year, as my totally unscientific and subjective opinion from last summer is that I putt better from 5/6 feet with the flag out. Can't prove it either way, but my sense of it was that I held more with it out.

kev_s88

I'm very much a "go with the group feeling" on this. If people want it out, i'm happy to take it out. If people want it left in, i'm happy to leave it in. I'm not good enough at the game to worry about the impact the flag will have on my putt 🤣

token56

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117000#Comment_120117000

Very interesting. I would have thought more of the top pro's would be moving towards leaving the pin with such a big difference. Although to be fair I don't they often hit a putt 6 or 9 feet past a hole.

Rikand

From 15 feet and in, I take the flag out.

From anything greater than 15 feet, I leave the flag in.

mjsc1970

My usual 3 ball. We all leave it in almost always. Unless the wind is gusting it towards a short putt.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122299#Comment_120122299

same, except probably 20-25 foot for me

ive had more than my fair share putts in recent times not drop for the sole reason flag kept them out

better out IMO.

longer putts doesn't really matter, leave flag in and keep moving a bit faster

phelimb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121581#Comment_120121581

Likewise! If whomever is first to putt takes it out that's fine with me - I won't put it back in for my turn. If I'm first then I'll probably leave it in.

Will take it out if it's real windy and the flag is all over the place, especially on short putts.

I've had a couple of bounce outs from hitting the pin but also had a few drop from hitting the pin that probably wouldn't drop if the pin was out, so it balances out I guess...

Frisbee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121581#Comment_120121581

Same, it doesn't bother me either way so I'll usually just ask on the first green what people preferences are and go from there. I'd happily leave it in all the time to save the faffing.

billy3sheets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120122299#Comment_120122299

Same here. Give or take. Can depend on how clearly I can see the hole. Very rare I'd ask for it to be put back in, unless some of my partners had reason to putt out a short putt before my long one.

I've certainly seen cases where ball hit the pin on a short putt and bounced out and the hole looks bigger for me with it out.

Mantis Toboggan

I'm easy either way, the club invested in new flags with a thinner pole so less likely to keep a ball out.

blue note

I read an article in Golf Digest about 10 years ago where they said they tested the question comprehensively and the result was that the ball is more likely to go in with the flag in. But to be honest, I'll go with the group almost always. In or out is my preference. In then out then in then out is definitely not.

But I will admit I prefer putting with it out. I think I like the sound of the putt dropping.

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120124439#Comment_120124439

From close range, I find the pin to be distracting, especially if there is any wind at all. The fluttering of the flag bothers me or gentle sway of the pole. From distance the pin is out of my eyeline, so not distracting me at all.

My own preference is to take it out once within a resonable distance that I feel I have a chance. If I'm not playing with the lads I generally golf with (pool of 15 lads or so) I ask on the first green what people prefer and go with it.

Seve OB

when was the last time you had someone tend the flagstick?

srfc d16

My preference is always flag in. I usually play with the same group most weeks and their preference is out. Generally I will either go first and take it out after putting or go last and put it back in when they have finished. If for some reason it was out on my go I would get on with it and leave it out but we try to avoid that situation

slave1

In, if with folk outside usual partners I just ask on the first and go with the flow but for that 12ft downhiller it's going back in!!

Seve OB

well flagstick left in there might just have lost Thompson this tournament

without a doubt it kept the ball out

spacecoyote

Impossible to know for sure though. It did look like it had a chance of going in with no pin there, but the putt was fairly moving and hit the left of center of the pin.

It might have hit the back of the cup and stayed in, but could have easily slipped round the side and ended up in 3 putt territory.

Kiith

I like to blame the flag being in when the ball bounces off the flag, and the flag being out when the ball lips out. Never my fault.

In seriousness, i used to prefer it in for all putts, but last year started taking it out for the shorted ones. Not sure why, think someone just said the hole looks bigger with it out and that made sense to my brain. Probably made a single putt with it out, and was convinced i'd fixed all my putting problems.

spacecoyote

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145165#Comment_120145165

I kind of had the opposite in my head with leaving it in for short ones. The whole theory of aim small, miss small.

So the flag gives me a smaller target to focus on

Kiith

And we both still miss 😆

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144869#Comment_120144869

I'd disagree.

Pretty much everyone on commentary agreed that the pin cost him. Of course you are correct that we don't know for sure but I've had a few of them myself recently and when you know, you know. Playing golf for as long as we have, we've enough experience watching putts drop or skip out. Some you just know are dropping... till they hit the pin slightly off centre ☹️ I think we all know that this was one of them.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/the-science-behind-why-the-flagstick-should-be-pulled-999-percent-of-the-time?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=golfdigest

benny79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120153059#Comment_120153059

I agree hence why I always take it out. I dont think its not as bad on links courses as the flags are totally different but again I would still take it out when within range.