Packages dumped outside door and destroyed by rain

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 8:22pm #1

A few weeks ago, I ordered a number of items from Amazon last week and they did not offer me any choice regarding delivery date. Some of the packages were "delivered" on a day when I was not at home, which means that they were left outside my front door exposed to heavy rain. The rain soaked through the packaging and completely destroyed the items inside.

I raised a complaint with Amazon and they ignored it, saying that from their end it showed the products were delivered to the correct address. This is not the first time packages have been carelessly "delivered" when I'm not at home, i.e. left outside my front door. Last Christmas I had a similar issue with a package going completely missing and Amazon refusing to take responsibility. It's not just Amazon either, although they make up the bulk of my online purchases. Despite my instructions to the contrary, all couriers insist on leaving products outside my door... Am I insane or was it not the norm a few years ago that if the occupant of the house was not at home, the package would be returned to the depot and a delivery slip left in the recipient's mailbox advising them either how to collect the package or arrange for another delivery day? Honestly, a thirty minute drive to a depot is a lot better than my purchases being completely ruined due to a delivery driver trying to meet a quota.

VG31 · 16-12-2022 8:50pm

Complain to Amazon again, stating clearly that the items you received were damaged. Sometimes you can just be unlucky with an agent and you need to try again.

It's become much more common for couriers to do this since Covid. Funnily enough Amazon actually used to wait for someone to answer the door almost always during Covid. It's only since a few months ago that they just leave them outside the door.

Even the postman in my area does this. Only DHL, UPS and FedEx never just leave packages outside the door in my experience. The DPD driver doesn't for signed for items at least also.

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 8:57pm

I made a refund request under A-Z and it was refused because the tracking said "parcel handed to resident", despite me having photographic evidence of the package being damaged. I have exhausted my appeals so I can either give up or go to the Small Claims Court.

Caranica · 16-12-2022 8:58pm

Ring doorbell or equivalent is what you need. Talk to the delivery person at the time they're there. They have waterproof bags they can put stuff in if they leave it outside

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005284#Comment_120005284

They may have rung the doorbell but I was at work at the time, and there was nobody else at home. If the delivery person had a waterproof back he did not use it.

Jim_Hodge · 16-12-2022 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005278#Comment_120005278

Make a claim under 'damaged goods'. I've had to do so a few times and never had any issues.

Caranica · 16-12-2022 9:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005295#Comment_120005295

I was referring to a Ring doorbell, a video doorbell (hence the capital R). Talk to them through the app when they ring the bell. They don't put the bags on the stuff unless you specifically ask when talking to them

16-12-2022 9:07pm

it’s not all Amazons fault

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005301#Comment_120005301

Again, they refused the refund because it happened after the package was delivered.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005313#Comment_120005313

I might look into that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005329#Comment_120005329

I realise that "delivery by Amazon" does not mean Amazon Inc actually delivers the package, they're the ones I have a contract with.

Deub · 16-12-2022 9:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005333#Comment_120005333

Your contract is with the seller you bought from, not Amazon. You should see “sold by X” on your order.

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005357#Comment_120005357

True, but it does not really make a difference. I made a claim for a refund from the seller, who refused it, and then I made an A-Z claim from Amazon against the seller. That's not the point though - the point is that delivery drivers have decided to stop delivering packages to residents and instead just dump them at the front door. Amazon (and vendors on Amazon) also have started to refuse responsibility for what happens to packages once they are "delivered" - i.e. dumped outside.

Rustyman101 · 16-12-2022 9:28pm

Covid gave the courier companies carte blanch to dump parcels on the doorsteps and bugger off, have some v interesting footage of recent "deliveries" Kevin from DPD is particularly efficient......lol

1 comical incident where they put a box of wine under the doormat, walked back to the van got in then reviewed and rethought the wisdom of putting 12 bottles of wine under the mat....hilarious to look at.

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 9:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005402#Comment_120005402

We need to get real on consumer rights in this country. Amazon can do whatever the heck they want with impunity because they have so much market power. Unless the little guy has recourse to a properly resourced regulator, they have zero incentive to accept responsibility for their obvious **** ups.

CalamariFritti · 16-12-2022 9:36pm

Well you do have some serious power actually. You could take your business elsewhere.

GreeBo · 16-12-2022 9:38pm

You could return it under the distance selling regulations?

You'll pay postage, but if the goods are worth 100's of euro its better than doing nothing.

Would be hard for amazon to not take the items back if they are still in the original (destroyed) packaging.

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005433#Comment_120005433

Technically I could stop doing business with Amazon, which would be inconvenient but not impossible. Not doing business with courier companies is a much taller order as a lot of the products I buy are not available in high street shops here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005447#Comment_120005447

I also tried this. The items are damaged, and Amazon claim I am responsible for the damage. Because of this, it's not possible for me to return them.

elperello · 16-12-2022 9:58pm

Some couriers will leave stuff anywhere.

I had a 500e electronic item thrown over a fence, lucky for me it landed in a bush and no harm was done.

I also had an expensive book shoved under a hedge on a wet day. Lucky again I got home early.

I find my postman is more conscientious.

Jim_Hodge · 16-12-2022 9:59pm

Send it back under distance selling.

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 10:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005552#Comment_120005552

As above, I tried this and the refund was refused because they claim I am responsible for the damage.

CalamariFritti · 16-12-2022 10:02pm

Like you said a few years ago anything that had any kind of value on it had to be signed for. I guess covid changed that and now it seems to have become a grey area.

As a layman I would think that left outside your front door doesn't actually qualify as delivered. Anyone could just take it for starters. It's not secure. Then there is weather damage as you described.

Push to shove I don't think amazon or the courier would have a leg to stand on. I would suggest like a previous poster said claiming damaged item and hold firm on that. It's the actual truth and if they say we have a delivery confirmation you say yes it was delivered but it's damaged all the same. And you can't be responsible until you actually take possession which is not the same as the courier dumping it on your front door.

I'd be in the same boat only I'm lucky my door is in a recess and things rarely get wet. Still tho most of the time the courier gives it to the neighbour. Only low cost stuff they leave behind the flower pot.

Jim_Hodge · 16-12-2022 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005574#Comment_120005574

Very odd. I've always found them excellent with any issues over delivery or damage.

16-12-2022 10:06pm

We had sensitive and confidential documents just dumped on the door step by what was supposed to be a signed for service!

The couriers are a complete joke, especially since COVID.

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 10:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005585#Comment_120005585

I agree, but they're holding firm to the position that when they delivered the goods they were in perfect working condition. The damage occurred post-delivery and they are not responsible for that.

I agree that dropping them on my doorstep does not count as delivered, but I guess the question is how do we consumers enforce that reasonable view? Small claims court?

CalamariFritti · 16-12-2022 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005666#Comment_120005666

I'd dig my heels in.

Tell them when the goods came into your possession they were damaged and your next correspondence will be from your solicitor which will add to the cost of the damaged item (for them).

May I ask is it an expensive item?

Unless its crazy expensive Amazon are typically pretty good with these things.

16-12-2022 10:55pm

The goods weren't delivered. They were thrown on your door step in the rain. I wouldn't accept that and threaten small claims if necessary.

Sono Topolino · 16-12-2022 11:01pm

Amazon appears to have taken the view that I’m after a freebie/pay day at their/the seller’s expense. The value of the damaged goods is around €800 so it is worth my time going to the SCC.

babyducklings1 · 16-12-2022 11:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058276089/packages-dumped-outside-door-and-destroyed-by-rain

That’s why I’m very hesitant about online purchases . It gets complicated though as some purchases online ( if you are not at home ) are returned to the post office then you go to the post office and sign for them whereas others ( courier company) have phoned to say it’s in transit and will I be there or not when it’s delivered.

It really is hit and miss ( literally) some family members who frequently buy online have had parcels flung over gates into the garden. Not great if it’s a purchase to be handled with care. There are pros and cons for sure. I wanted to buy glassware and kitchen things online for Christmas presents this year and the online option was so convenient but decided against it as was afraid they might get broken or damaged. I’m not talking specifically about Amazon but in general, but it is hard to figure out ( when ordering , in my opinion) how the delivery will be dealt with ie. Put into your garden or returned to post office or depot.

17-12-2022 7:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005313#Comment_120005313

It could also be construed that as the first word in your post was Ring that you were following normal grammar rules and starting the first word of a sentence with a capital letter. Indeed, I had to read your post at least twice to figure out what you meant.

Ferm001 · 17-12-2022 8:21am

Household does a lot of shopping online, and seldom anyone at home.

Had similar issue with items getting wet, etc. Bought one of these and solved problem (still risk of theft).

CalamariFritti · 17-12-2022 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005869#Comment_120005869

That is a high value item in my book and I would see the courier at fault here.

But your contract is with Amazon so let them deal with it.

Caranica · 17-12-2022 9:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006360#Comment_120006360

I didn't say Ring the doorbell so suggesting it was a verb would make the rest of the sentence grammatically incorrect.

Video doorbells are game changers for online shoppers who work outside the home. Communication and evidence.

Deub · 17-12-2022 9:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006531#Comment_120006531

That’s the thing. The contract is with the seller, not Amazon. If going to SCC, the op needs to choose the right company.

Akrasia · 17-12-2022 9:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006533#Comment_120006533

They're also expensive and full of their own privacy/security concerns.

https://thehackernews.com/2022/08/new-amazon-ring-vulnerability-could.html

The Continental Op · 17-12-2022 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005594#Comment_120005594

Quite agree but it sounds like the OP bought from a third party seller on Amazon. Some are dire when it comes to helping the customer after they have posted out a package. Time to name and shame them I think. Hope OP left a stinking one star review for the company.

imo a delivery made to a doorstep and left outside is not a completed delivery whatever Amazon and their cheap third party sellers say.

If this was fulfilled by Amazon or even sold by Amazon I don't think the OP would have the same issue over the refund.

One of the reasons I often state here for paying for prime (and not buying from third party sellers) is it gives me some control over the couriers used. Prime ensures I don't get "Fastway" delivering anything and the odd time it has happened I've complained and got a fiver or tenner credit for my trouble.

VG31 · 17-12-2022 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006533#Comment_120006533

They're not much use for communication if the the driver just rings the doorbell and runs away, as they often do.

I agree on the video evidence advantage though. At least you have proof if something wasn't delivered.

Ger Roe · 17-12-2022 11:51am

It's not just Amazon.

I have had many packages left on the doorstep, by various courier and delivery companies, even when we have been inside the house and there were obvious signs of being home - no doorbell rang, no knock. The most recent was earlier this week when a box containing a pair of shoes was left on the step in the rain while we were home. It was not noticed until locking up the front door for the night at 11pm. A scan of the tracking number then revealed that it had been 'delivered' at 6pm.? From my TV viewing position, I have also often seen various couriers delivering to the opposite side of my road where they drop and run without any attempt to alert the householder.

An Post have not been immune from some recent sharp delivery practices in my experience either. Even registered post seems to be concluded without the expected confirmation signatures - some boardsies have previously advised that this is standard practice since Covid, but that is not how they advertise the service on their website and they don't tell you that there will be no signature acceptance when you pay for registered delivery either.

Do we need additional consumer protection legislation passed to legally define what is actually acceptable as a 'delivery'?

Caranica · 17-12-2022 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006554#Comment_120006554

They're now smaller and half the price I paid for mine. Having lost my phone earlier in the year I can tell you that if you've 2fa set up it is far from easy to get into a Ring account. I practically had to send a DNA sample.

I wouldn't be without mine for security and deliveries. We had one courier who liked to call before 7am. Talking to him on my phone was a lot easier than getting out of bed!

Re the courier running away, I've called several back having gotten the motion alert before they rang the bell.

Sono Topolino · 17-12-2022 5:32pm

“Don’t order online if you can’t guarantee you are home to accept delivery,” said a UPS driver to me today after I challenged him for ringing once, dropping the package at the door and scarpering away. “What do you want me to do? I have 500 packages in the van.”

C3PO · 18-12-2022 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005329#Comment_120005329

Who else’s fault could it be?

The Continental Op · 18-12-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120010451#Comment_120010451

Normally I'd agree with you but afaik the OP bought from a 3rd party seller on Amazon so Amazon would have have never seen the item and had nothing to do with how it was packaged and what courier was used.

I do feel its Amazons fault for siding with the seller.

The odd time I'd bought and had issues with 3rd party sellers I didn't feel I was on very firm ground with Amazon distancing themselves from the problem and doing nothing more than passing on messages. As a result it would be very rare for me to even consider buying anything "on" Amazon that they didn't have themselves in a fulfilment centre. I very nearly bought a monitor that I've been watching that dropped a good bit in price however stopped myself as it was a 3rd party seller. I'd prefer to pay a little more direct from Amazon themselves.

18-12-2022 4:18pm

I would just say you never received the package if it was damaged and not signed for.

Surely the driver would need proof of you accepting the packages such as a signature, otherwise, you could just say they were never received?

CalamariFritti · 18-12-2022 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120010648#Comment_120010648

Since the buyer already has opened a dispute for damaged item it's probably a bit late for that now.

sibersha · 18-12-2022 8:54pm

Issue a charge-back with your bank provider for the transaction

GreeBo · 21-12-2022 12:13am

I arrived home today to find my two 24" curved screens sitting on my doorstep, it appears they were there in plain view for at least 3 hours, thankfully they werent destroyed by rain or pinched!

Purchased directly from amazon and my signature faked by DPD.

Sono Topolino · 21-12-2022 10:15am

Finally got a response from Amazon that halfway makes sense. Apparently my alternative delivery setting was "secure location near on property". My property does not have a secure location, and therefore they were dumped on my doorstep. I do not recall having ever gone near these settings in ten years or so of having an Amazon account...

The Continental Op · 21-12-2022 10:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021019#Comment_120021019

Keep at them, ask them when you set it up or is it a default setting. Tell them you never set it up and if its a default then thats their fault.

Have you checked the settings yourself? Just checked the 7 addresses I have set up and none have anything set up they are all blank because I've never changed them - or even knew they existed come to that.

Alun · 21-12-2022 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021019#Comment_120021019

Check that on your Amazon account page, under Your Account Your Addresses, Add delivery instructions. Mine has no alternative delivery location selected and to my knowledge I've never even looked in that menu so assume that's the default unless you specify otherwise.

CalamariFritti · 21-12-2022 10:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021019#Comment_120021019

Me neither. Just checked my address settings and I can't see anything resembling that. Neither on amazon UK nor DE.

Did you check and find this yourself?

On another note, like someone else said, there is always the option of disputing the bank charge as a last resort. But typically places like Amazon don like that at all and can get ratty after that. Like closing account type of ratty. I don't know, last resort. But for 800 quid it's something I would probably do if no resolution can be found.