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Removing ditch on safety grounds

  • 11-01-2023 6:39am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭


    The farmyard entrance is onto quite a busy rural road, perfect clear vision from one side but the other side you have to be halfway across the road before you can see anything coming due to a bulging ditch. Would it be OK to get digger in to remove this piece to improve vision before an accident happens, have had plenty of near misses. I know a mirror on the other side of the road would help but by removing piece of this ditch it would also improve turning into the yard with machinery etc. The ditch just runs along side the farm yard and would be replaced with a fence. Any issue with doing something like, is it the same rules as removing f a ditch in a field?



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,896 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    I take it you are talking about creating a splay. I don't think they are considered the same way - would you need to notify if you will be working roadside of the hedge, or can you work from field side?



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,706 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    There are exemptions from the rules around cutting hedges where you can do it along the road or for safety reasons. So there might be something. Even if you had to apply for permission, I'd reckon they would be likely to grant it because of the safety aspect. Because if they didn't grant it and there was an accident then there could be questions asked.


    I think that in general you can also remove 100m of hedgerow a year too. But you have to replace it and the replacement has to be planted before the actual removal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 651 ✭✭✭cap.in.hand.


    If your replacing with a fence ...plant a hedge inside the fence...it would eventually fill in with existing ditch/hedge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Girl Geraldine


    If you are widening or otherwise materially altering an entrance onto a public road you need to get planning permission.

    Council should be in favour of anything that will help to improve road safety so I'd say if your proposal is properly laid out, you should have no problem getting permission. But you do need it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Take a few good photos from the right angles of existing bulging ditch - they may come handy in the very unlikely event of any awkward questions being asked in the future. Get digger in and remove ditch before March when birds start nesting. If you go looking for planning etc. from council it will take forever and a day and may cost a small fortune. The council will not bother you if you do the work but once you bring it to their attention they are obliged to act to cover their own ass and what is now a molehill can easily turn into a mountain. They may look for an environmental impact study/assessment etc. etc. and they don't come cheap! As I'm sure you're aware the green agenda rules the roost now so it's advisable to shoot first and ask questions later😉 In situations like yours it's best to act ignorant of any laws rules or regulations that may exist but that you were not aware of.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,461 ✭✭✭Furze99


    Ahem - kinda dodgy advice!

    When you say bulging ditch, can you cut it back a bit to create more visibility without removing it entirely. That might be the most practical and keep within the law with minimum effort..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭DJ98


    All the work could be completed from within the farm yard, basically the gate into the farm yard is about 7ft in off the road and to the left is the same but when you come out the ditch on the right is out that extra 7ft if you get me with a big bulge on it, so basically then what I want to do is sort of curve the ditch to the right and bring it down in height so when exiting the yard you can clearly see both sides of the road. Not sure how easy that is too understand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭cjpm


    I’ve seen a fella to pull a ditch a few feet inwards without knocking it or turning it over. After 3-4 months it was all grown over again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,896 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    You could say it needed done immediately before end of the hedge cutting period due to a number of near misses and apply retrospectively if needed. Just take photographs of the problem prior to starting any work.

    Maybe a quick call to a local councillor or TD off the record could let you know the process.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,553 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Get lots of photos taken before you do anything. Can you widen your own entrance so that when you come out on to the road you’ll be doing it at an angle so that you can see what traffic is coming before you actually get on the road? A few pics here might help too.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Girl Geraldine




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,772 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    We recently had a ditch taken out, Vodafone did it when replacing a rebounder. They had to get planning permission to take out the ditch and they replaced it with like a motorway fence. It was very dangerous coming out previously. Will get a photo tomorrow. They had to leave about 5 foot of the hedge as was according to the planners



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Did something similar here years ago, removed about 50 metres of an old ditch that was on the edge of the road and planted a new hedge back 3 metres to leave a grass verge next the road, I asked the council about it and they had no issue as I was improving the "sight line" on a dangerous entrance



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭monseiur


    You say 'keep within the law' - Can you quote chapter & verse or provide a link to the statute law that states that it is illegal for a farmer/landowner to interfere with or remove a small section of ditch (that is part of his property) for the health & safety reasons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Girl Geraldine


    You won't find something saying that specifically. But you will not see that type of work listed as "exempted development". And if it is not exempted development then, by default, it will require planning permission.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭monseiur


    It's this needless, pointless bureaucracy & red tape that has this country fu..ed up. The OP is not looking to re align the main road or create another exit road from land on to main road - just to remove a bulge on a ditch to improve sight lines in the interest of the safety of those exiting from farmyard on to main road and other road users. It could be argued that the OP is proactive in accident avoidance and saving lives. I would hazard a guess that this ditch is in situ from the time horse & cart was the mode of transport and has ''grown'' in size over the years with expanding roots etc. The OP can easily reform the ditch using spoil from 'bulge' at an angle that suits and it will grow back in a season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,461 ✭✭✭Furze99


    You are advocating and I quote from your own post in your own words "In situations like yours it's best to act ignorant of any laws rules or regulations that may exist but that you were not aware of."

    :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Perhaps you should read it again before shooting the messenger....I said any laws or regulations that MAY exist. (the devil is in the detail !!) If your are aware that such laws actually exist please enlighten us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,772 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Here's ours , the old ditch ran the whole way down with a gate that it was impossible to see up or down the road when going out. New gate put back in a bit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,896 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    @whelan2 - Did you put your rails on the inside to prevent scratching animals bursting them off?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,772 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    There's chainlink wire on the inside too, it just hasn't been finished yet. Also stays for electric fence. A contractor did the work , they didn't ask which way we wanted the rails tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,772 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    I know there's something that you have to have the rails on a certain way if it's along side a road. To prevent the fence coming at the car. Daughter crashed through a post and rail fence last year in her car. When we were fixing the fence the fencing man was telling us. Fence was much easier fixed than her car....

    Post edited by whelan2 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,844 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    Having the rail on the inside means it flies into the field during collisions. When on the outside with the spring effect it can end in the cab of the car and hurt an occupant



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,362 ✭✭✭kk.man


    Do you have mobile phone masks near your place?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,772 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Yes rebounders, you can see them in one of the photos, the new one is a good bit bigger than the old one



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    If your claiming any BPS payments etc, your suppose to to get an EIA license to remove a hedgerow and plant back or before on an other area before removal and linear meters to be replanted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭3 the square


    How big can you knock a gap in a ditch now days without having to plant a hedge to replace it ??



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Jb1989


    Can't see many who are taking out a hedge having somewhere else to plant one.

    What is the story on replanting a new hedge. Could you plant a hedge along side an existing hedge if you had no other areas to plant a new one?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,772 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    There was no mention of replanting in our planning , the council recommended removing the hedge



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