Livid.. the worker screwed again

Packrat

I work in Tourism and Travel, first industry closed during Covid and last to open.

In March 2020 when the PUP was introduced, I was already on JSB as most in my trade were so didn't get moved to PUP.

JSB ended in Sept 20 and from then until Aug 21 - nothing, nada, no money at all coming in bar a small farm payment (<8k)

So we were finally allowed to work again in Aug 21 and have been working since then albeit not fulltime last winter.

Now that the season is over for this year, I'm told that I'm "not entitled" to JSB because I didn't work enough contributions in 2020 - when I wasnt allowed work... and didn't qualify for the free money being fzcked around to all and sundry at that time.

So penalized again this winter a second time - for working.

Fxxk this country. Every waster in and outside EU can come in here and draw everything but I'm here wondering how I'm going to feed my family until next May....

easygoing39

I agree with you're last paragraph,our govt helps everyone but the native's that try to work and pay tax.

Dempo1

A lot to un pack, firstly as you were on JSB at the time PUP was introduced, you would not have qualified for PUP, you had to have been in employment at the time and have been laid off. Perhaps unfair but those were the guidelines.

It is not true to say Hospitality staff were not on PUP, infact employers dropped their staff like bad habits, rather than retain them on wage subsidy schemes, the results of that decision well known. No one was moved to PUP, they applied for it.

If your JSB ended in in Sept 20, you would have been invited to apply for JSA but as you know its means tested, did you apply, we're you means tested 🤔

With regards to re qualifying for JSB, they look at contributions in 2020 if applying in 2022 so clearly not enough paid, Have you applied for JSA 🤔 again means tested. You seem to think JSB is the only support available, there is SWA but again its means tested.

Whilst not getting into "Wasters" from other countries, with the exception of 🇺🇦 refugees, who get SWA, others get a very basic Refugee or Asylum seeker payment of €39 per adult per week.

I get your frustration but feel your not exploring options other than JSB or possibly your means is being determined that you are infact entitled to very little, Context is important. Your situation may also be complicated by your receipt of farm payment.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119961892#Comment_119961892

Thank you for reading and understanding what i wrote.

Yes, JSA won't be of any use for two reasons:

1. I will have occasional days of work between now and May which doesn't jive with JSA.

JSB on the other hand has the casual docket system which works very well with casual work.

2. It's means tested which in my case means they'll drown me in paperwork and questions for about 2 months, turn me upside down and shake me to see what falls out of my pockets, and then conclude that I'm "entitled" to about €50 a week.

Not worth them owning me for a derisory amount.

To explain about hospitality and Covid, - yes I'm well aware that many businesses shed staff on to PUP.

Many other parts of the tourist businesses hadn't actually opened at all for the season including the one I work in, when all was shut on March 15th or whatever it was.

Finally, - those on €39 pw are also fed and found for that and it's per person, - each of whom has paid in exactly €0 to the system.

My frustration is that my industry was the last to open (End of July 21 they allowed Americans back in) and during that time (nearly a year) I coped and fed my family from savings (all now gone) without any state help whilst watching a family next door drawing 4 x PUP payments into the house, - reward for their 1 to 2 nights/week collecting glasses contribution that they made pre-covid.

Now, despite having worked continuously since we were allowed to again, clearing the bills and trying to get back on the level, - this counts for nothing and I'm not "entitled" to virtually anything.

Doubly penalised.

Covid exceptions on this that and the other for everybody, - gov employees still "working" from home with "no access to the system" when you call them about anything and no covid exception for the one who works their hole off. f**ked over.

As usual.

Dempo1

Casual Docket system can apply for both JSB and JSA, the Crux of your dilemma is Means Testing and believe me, I fully understand the process but unfortunately anyone who is seeking a payment that requires means Testing has to go through the process.

I absolutely agree, it's a daunting prospect but a large number of things are factored in including dependent children & I can only urge you to consider applying for support albeit means Testing may be required.

I spent a whole year on Boards guiding folks through the PUP process, I fully understood the unfairness of how it was awarded but it must be noted, Rates paid were drastically reduced in year 2 & students lost it and part time staff went to the same rate as Jobseekers.

I spent near 30 years in Hospitality so know precisely what your referring to.

I don't believe it's fair to throw refugees into this discussion but I do tend to agree it seems a very unfair.

I'll end by saying this, your approach is misguided, you would be far better off staying in the system, even if your entitled to very little, you may build up eligibility for other all allowances in time, there's also stamps to consider albeit I'm unsure if your registered as self employed with the farm payment.

I wish you well but take a step back and re assess.

Still stihl waters 3

While I sympathise op you say you have a farm income with a small farm payment of varound 8k, there must be a farm income along with this also, are you making a loss on the farm

Flinty997

Sounds like the current mix of farming and tourism isn't sustainable for the OP.

Might be time to consider a different income strategy. I fully appreciate that might like saying go climb everest.

TooTired123

Your argument seems to be that you don’t agree with “means testing”. Ok. Can you suggest a better way of assessing how much financial assistance should be payable to those who haven’t paid enough PRSI to get benefits?

Packrat

Mod, - time to close the thread.

It's clearly just entitled whinging or I don't work hard enough, or am a bad farmer according to one clever clogs and this system is entirely fair and equitable.

I'll be fine, I always have, we'll just carry on helping the never worked, the economic migrants, the Ukrainians, and I should probably contribute a bit more tax to make sure they're all ok.

Yep, nothing to see here, move along folks.. I'm probably a racist as well...

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962543#Comment_119962543

You seem to have or had different streams of income. Think of yourself as self employed, every small farmer is essentially, and you have various streams of income that combine. Tourism type work not suiting? Look for another to replace or supplement. When you work, you do so for the benefit of yourself and the state but no one owes you a living either. That's just how it is.

Flinty997

I thought this thread might be interesting discussion on how to make positive change. But it isn't.

Dempo1

That's quite harsh , you've come on , made wild assertions, resent being means tested and drag refugees into your post . The Forum is intended for those seeking advice and there are those (more experienced than I ) willing to offer it . It's not intended to facilitate a whinge fest.

If your concerned about feeding your family , you know what to do. I'd wager there are those much worse off than you on this forum. The SW system is certainly not perfect but it's been my experience that the DSP staff are reasonable, will try and help but have to work under guidelines and help those in genuine need of support.

Calahonda52

OP: Ease off on the bile and vitriol and focus on what is under you control and use the great advice given by Dempo1 et al.

I have been on boards for a number of years under different monikers and Dempo1 is consistently outstanding in his contributions.

Ranting on about "them" wont help either them or you.

Have you spoken to your local TD?

Glurrl

Maybe it's time to sell the farm. You have valuable assets, why should the tax payer pay.

Former Former Former

You were claiming job seekers benefit in a time of full employment. You were happy to live off other people's taxes when it suited you.

Yeah mate, the Ukrainians are the issue.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964261#Comment_119964261

What? 2020? What drugs are you on?

I'll explain VERY slowly:

My industry was shut down then - we werent allowed work.

Now i have only sporadic work again until next May and wanted a little help.. after 30 years of paying taxes - millions actually if we count when I had my own business for 17 years and employed hundreds of others.

Mods could we close this thread please, it's attracting a particularly nasty element of bottom feeder now.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962543#Comment_119962543

I never said anything about the merits or otherwise of means testing. I am interested in how you think families asking for help should be assessed if not by means testing.

I know you don’t think that payments should be allocated to just anyone who applies.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964326#Comment_119964326

But you weren't working in it when it closed down......

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964966#Comment_119964966

Is that so hard to understand?

Circumstances change.

Plenty of small to medium enterprises come and go and if you ever ran anything yourself you'd know that the owners are rarely in a good place after they go, - not if they're honest anyway.

Also that was more than a decade ago, and it was the same story then - redundancy and SW for all employees except me who ended up living in my sister's attic for 6 months.

Don't you dare try to lecture me on stuff not adding up you smarmy whatever...

I've lived this life, yet you feel it's ok to badger berate and belittle someone asking why the system is stacked in favour of those who do **** all.

There's a nasty nasty streak in some people which only appears when they have a chance from behind safety and anonymity to attack people.

The same cowardly curs wouldn't pass a word in person though because they know they'd be flat on their arse if they did.

Packrat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965010#Comment_119965010

Yes I was, - casual dockets for JSB and occasional days.

That's why no PUP.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964326#Comment_119964326

Loads of employers are crying out for staff, especially over the busy Xmas period - retailers, delivery crews, hospitality.

Beasty

Thread closed

I'll have a look at certain posts later on