Kaleidoscope [Netflix] *Spoilers*

cdgalwegian

https://entertainment.ie/on-demand/on-demand-news/kaleidoscope-netflix-giancarlo-esposito-548521/

Puzzle piece! I'm in. This could crash and burn, or lead the way as an innovative approach to clever story-telling. Hopefully it's the latter.

As they can be watched in any order, except the finale, spoilers from the off.

cdgalwegian

From the Netflix Recommendations thread:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914681#Comment_119914681

"The latest beyond this show being an announcement they are building a AAA PC video-game. And because they'll be channeling ludicrous amount of money into that, expect the blandest, most committee-neutered porridge imaginable".

😁

I really hope it's a more wholesome waffles and Golden Syrup and ice-cream affair.

I had first thought it was centred on a relatively short time period from multiple perspectives, and wondered then if it was different time periods leading up to "the event". I think I would have preferred the former, but looks like it's the latter:

https://www.techradar.com/news/netflixs-kaleidoscope-is-an-ambitious-tv-experiment-that-will-thrill-heist-fans

"Loosely inspired by the real-life story where seventy billion dollars in bonds went missing in downtown Manhattan during Hurricane Sandy, Kaleidoscope consists of eight episodes spanning from 24 years before the heist to 6 months after," the press blast reads.

cdgalwegian

Only 2 days before this drops.

I was thinking of Giancarlo Esposito as the lead - this is his first time as lead in film and television, isn't it?

Also, does he ever give a warm hearty smile in his roles? Like many people I suppose he only came to attention in Breaking Bad, and tends to play stern characters, villainous or otherwise, but does he do non-villainous grins?

cdgalwegian

WARNING !!!!

I'd assumed that the randomised viewing means that there is no way to jump from one randomised choice straight to episode 8 - the first 7 are randomised for every account, with the last always as episode 8 i.e. that you couldn't jump straight to 8. The episodes aren't numbered - they're coloured. My first episode was Orange. BUT, after you watch the first episode, it does the standard menu of "Episodes and more", and you can choose any episode you want. DO NOT CHOOSE WHITE. This is the heist itself. Leave that until last. Best leave Netflix to do the randomising, which leaves White (8) til last.

Slydice

Sounds fun. Found a list randomiser here: https://random-ize.com/randomize-list/

I put in the episodes and clicked the button a few times. Here's the original alphabetical if anyone wants to make their own order:

Blue

Green

Orange

Pink

Red

Violet

Yellow

Slydice

Well this looks good. I think I'll be experiencing this show as a revenge story with a heist attached.

Blue: Wow! What a strong episode to start with. This pulled me in right from the start.

I'm not generally into heist shows for the sake of heisting.. just never felt very compelling.

Here though, it looks like it's all very thorough and technical about the heist but feels more like a deep revenge arc between

Spoiler Warning

Leo (Giancarlo Esposito) and Roger (Rufus Sewell). Leo looks like he's really been done bad. He seemed furious about the family photo. Like.. almost as if his family were murdered by Roger. Giancarlo Esposito had right fury on his face in the sauna and it felt like he really was going to kill Roger. Just I guess that killing isn't enough for him.

Other notes:

Spoiler Warning

Jai Courtney planning a backstab .. seems like that would go pretty wrong.. pretty easily. Also.. not sure if yer wan would go along with it. She seems into him but when he said it.. her face had that feeling for me change.

The FBI and the mole. This seems important but.. not detailed enough for them to know the exact details which feels wierd.. like maybe it's not one of the crew. An outsider maybe?

Seemed like the tech guy who got killed was the security tipoff.. so then I'm not sure who Leo (Giancarlo Esposito) called while eating his.. panini I think?

Yer wans sister working in the vault.. gotta be something there.

JP Liz V1

https://youtu.be/nHGk3sRxjYM

Interesting

EoinMcLovin

Just finished it there. My episode order was

"Yellow: 6 Weeks Before the Heist"

"Green: 7 Years Before the Heist"

"Orange: 3 Weeks Before the Heist"

"Violet: 24 Years Before the Heist"

"Blue: 5 Days Before the Heist"

"Red: The Morning After the Heist"

"Pink: 6 Months After"

"White: The Heist"

Overall thought it was alright

pixelburp

Wait. So it sounds like the show doesn't actually choose an order for the viewer? You gotta do it yourself?

Cordell

It did choose for me. So it was good enough to binge it yesterday but the random order is just a gimmick which made it a bit weird. And there is some reveal and conclusion in the heist episode so I think it's always the last.

EoinMcLovin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054802#Comment_120054802

That was the order I got from Netflix. White is always the last episode

cdgalwegian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054802#Comment_120054802

Netflix will randomize the episodes for you, always ending in White, the finale. But it left in the option to choose your own episode after the first one, but if you do this, and weren't aware of White being the finale, you could ruin it for yourself.

pixelburp

Ah, righto will bare that in mind.

So the other question is: is it actually any good a show? 🤣

Cordell

It's good enough. The plot is a bit weak and contrived but it's entertaining, and of course, Giancarlo Esposito.

cdgalwegian

Despite the attempts to make it irrelevant what order Netflix presents this in, apparently our psychological make-up means we still like a certain narrative linearity, so the 'best' order (rather than straightforwardly linear, but still ending in White) is doing the rounds already. For example: (no spoilers here)

https://www.inverse.com/entertainment/kaleidoscope-netflix-viewing-order

It'll be interesting to see any comparisons to the two different approaches to the ordering, to see if the fully randomised order works or not (regardless if the content itself is any good).

I've only seen Orange, which I read somewhere is probably the worst one to start off with🙄. That feels about right- it took a fair amount of time to get into it because of uncertainty over relationships etc, and seemed to be an outside looking in episode - from the FBI angle. In the end, I was left positive and intrigued, so looking forward to watching one a day, or maybe every 2 days.

Although it's about a heist, the kaleidoscopic viewing point (which does seem to be gimmicky) has the real draw that there is supposed to be a twist:(again, no spoilers with this article)

https://www.techradar.com/news/netflixs-kaleidoscope-is-an-ambitious-tv-experiment-that-will-thrill-heist-fans

Slydice

Orange: Definitely felt more of a buildup/setup episode. Explained one of the smaller questions I had in Blue.

Spoiler Warning

As in.. who the mole is.. Ava.

The FBI definitely looking stronger in this episode. Though I wouldn't say the FBI side of this show is done all that well at all. In Blue they seemed very amateurish.

Also.. I wouldn't put it past Ava maybe having come clean to Leo and them planning to screw over the FBI worse.

From early on, the crew focus seemed to be on Ava and Jai Courtneys Bob. Damn but Jai Courtney does a great job in this role. He comes across a real asshole and delivers on the threatening too.

Spoiler Warning

His possible upcoming backstab during/after the job .. if it happens.. could get kinda violent and bloody.

Judy.. who I was wondering about.. maybe she's not into the backstab because of the bond she's built with Stan

trashcan

I’ve watched three so far, Yellow, Green and Blue. I didn’t mess with the order, just took it as it came. To me it feels like if I’d started with Blue instead of Yellow I’d have found it pretty confusing. Yellow felt like an essential set up episode, which established the basic premise and the main characters. I found it hooky enough to watch three episodes tonight, so I suppose that’s a strong recommendation.

Slydice

Pink: WTF 😲😱

WTAF happens in White?!?!?

Right so. That's the aftermath. Blue and Orange definitely recommended before doing Pink. They have all the scenes that Pink has flashbacks to.

Spoiler Warning

Well then.. after Orange, I'd been guessing Jai Courtneys Bob would be getting violent.. and well.. yeah.

This episode! So much guns! So much blood!

What happens in White?!?! Stan and Bob definitely got stitches. Stan round his ear, Bob got his neck cut?! Left for dead?!?

What happened the money?!?! Yer wan working the bank is the daughter of Leo/Ray? So maybe he got it all arranged to goto her... and her sister? and his granddaughter?

Ava's dead?!😲 All those guns! What a fight!?! Those two hired goons! The love podcast!! The fence for Ava getting killed by Bob!

Well.. that all brings back the line from Westworld

 ""These violent delights have violent ends.".." Westworld quote S01E02 Dolores Abernathy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_HoRVbZfnM

Which google actually tells me is from Romeoe and Juliet (which I haven't read/watched/seen)

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/478386-these-violent-delights-have-violent-ends-and-in-their-triumph

Slydice

Violet: Awe. That was sad. 🙁

I'm not 100% but think that was the backstory for the Ray/Leo and Roger story. Definitely the backstory for the Ray/Leo.

Spoiler Warning

Like.. though.. it didn't show the wife as being dead. In Blue, it felt like Roger had done really bad and maybe this is it. Just not helping the wife.

I'm guessing then that she died here and Ray holds him responsible.

I liked how Ava was wearing Violet at the end to match the episode name.

I'm guessing the daughter is taught the ropes by Ava and maybe also Roger? Maybe he adopts her. Maybe Ava can't take care of her alone.

Slydice

Yellow: Wow, that one flew by. Definitely filled in some of the mystery from Blue and Pink

Spoiler Warning

That yer wan is his daughter. Confirmed 100% when they met up on the waterfront and he asked "what's their story" just like in Violet.

Bobs hand. The Jewelry job. The setup of the triplets.

Gotta be that he gives the bonds to the daughter in White or sets her up with the money from them. Unless a third party is gonna steal them mid-robbery.

Slydice

Red: Huh. The immediate aftermath. Before Pink .. OK.

Some clues here I think..

Spoiler Warning

So they all thought Bob was dead but they got that wrong. Don't think they could have cut his throat then. Only RJ as a suspect there or maybe Rays/Leos daughter.

RJ.. could he be dead.. or was he the one who cut Bob.. maybe even the one who kills Ray/Leo at the end of Pink?

The Bonds. Pretty high on my guess list is that they showed them on the way out with the FedEx guy. Thinking he was in on it with the daughter. So maybe a second crew then.... OH! OH! Maybe RJ was in both crews! Was Ray/Leo the leader though? Why would they kill him? Was that the plan? Was he going to die from some disease/sickness anyway?

Hmmmm...

Slydice

Green: Alright, not bad. That seems like the right episode for me to finish on before White. With the proper flashback reveal for me.

Pretty sure it almost completes the picture for me. Just left with one missing puzzle piece and that has to be..

Spoiler Warning

RJ. Think he's still a blank for me. Could be dead. Could be part of a second crew. Could be the one who kills Ray/Leo.

Onwards to White to find out!

EoinMcLovin

Its crazy seeing the order of episodes you've got. I got Yellow first and then Green and finished with Blue, red, Pink and White. You've definitely had a completely different experience than I did

yabadabado

Finished it tonight.

Must say it was a major disappointment,an interesting idea but it's very poor over all.

Esposito is good and the standout character.

Other than him it throws in every cliche character and set up that they can think off.

The watch in any sequence could work well but it would need to be a much better story and characters than this offered.

Slydice

Finished! Overall a solid heist-combo-revenge story with a hook (for me) right at the start, some big event episodes and a solid wrap-up.

I will say that starting with Blue really felt like a solid hook episode. Though maybe I got luck with the order of the rest.

White: Aaaaaaaaaaahhh grand.. ok, I see. The full picture filled in now.

I liked the detail they went into putting across the heist. That all felt solid. The bigger story and all smaller questions I had I think were answered.

Spoiler Warning

So, the daughter setup her own deal/crew with the triplets. Yeah I think she'll get away with it unless the other wan gives it away on her. Though with what the triplets can do, I don't think anyone is talkin.

Also, no betrayal of RJ. Just RJ getting done dirty. Judy walks away with so small an amount of money and it has the look like she'll be living hard with her decisions.

As for who killed Ray/Leo.. well Rogers son was wearing the killers T-Shirt so that explains that.

Future: I doubt they have plans. This was probably a lot to figure out to just keep reworking the same style over and over. Though.. maybe they could look at the John Wick (assassins) side of this world. That might be something.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067120#Comment_120067120

Oh wow, that must've been some experience! All the stuff that was reveals for me .. I guess you knew in advance.

cdgalwegian

The Netflix randomizer presented Violet as my next (3rd) episode, but apparently Yellow - as the' putting the team together' episode - is the best entry point, so I chose that in the 'Episodes and more' option. Maybe because I've already seen two, and can see how things are shaping up, I didn't get a whole lot out of it - so it looks like it probably is the best one to start with, for better orientation. I'm not sure how if the episode can be changed if it's the very first one; afaicr, there is no option for 'Episodes and more' until after the first has played. Not sure.

I did find the music a bit grating though. It has that 'cheap' association I have with those crappy series where you know instantly from the music what level of writing and production you're getting, which is a bit distracting.

Insofar as this is about a heist, and inevitable betrayal (Leo Pap keeps banging on about trust), it does seem geared towards a twist, so it looks so far that what we are meant to be working out is who is the rat, and have that upended. So far though, I don't feel particularly invested, but maybe that's because I'm too dumb to spot what the show is supposed to be 'the puzzle' that we're supposed to be solving. Or maybe it's just not that good, and the kaleidoscopic approach hides it (with arguable effect). At the moment, it seems to be heading towards being gimmicky, yet pretty good, so I'm hanging in there.

NIMAN

Finished it last night.

An interesting concept, and reasonably well executed. A decent 7/10 for me. Tried a little too hard to be like Oceans 11 and Reservoir Dogs at times.

Some said they watched it in chrono order. Personally I think that would ruin some of the questions, but each to their own.

Esposito was the standout actor in it all. Thought the weakst performance was Ava.

Loved the soundtrack. Some excellent tunes.

pixelburp

Got Yellow first as well; have no idea how Spoiler etiquette operates with a show with a randomised episode order lol. Best if folk spoiler text as much as possible?

It was ok, and if it was picked at random it was funny that it felt very much like a pilot or opening chapter. Everything felt like an introduction and table setting.

To the show itself, I dunno. I know Oceans 11 and the sequels left a deep cultural impact but the imitators often only invite comparison with that rather peerless film. As it was here as well; you're not Oceans 11 Kaleidoscope, dial it back a little, there are other styles you can use. As someone else said, it was a bit too Try Hard.

But I am a sucker for a good heist story, so I can't pretend I won't watch onwards.

DrZeuss

I honestly thought this was a terrible let down. All the characters came across as exaggerated caricatures of their characters.

I let Netflix decide the sequence until the last 3 episodes when I chose white, red and then pink and I cannot see how it would have made any sense to have white as the last episode knowing what happened after the heist.

trashcan

Only white left to go, and I have to say it feels a bit odd, knowing how the story finishes. I’m sure there are a couple of things which will be explained, so maybe it will be a bit clearer when I’ve watched White. I’ll say I enjoyed it so far. Solid, if not earth shattering. Not sure about the random episode order.

pixelburp

Watched a couple more of these: got Green as episode 2 followed by Blue: honestly it's a breezy & entertaining heist thriller, and I'm not sure what this randomised episode order is supposed to have brought. I don't know what the "best" order is supposed to be but haven't really noticed any glaring moments that confused enough to disrupt the experience.

The whole gimmick feels like another attempt by Netflix to create viral buzz (has it even worked?) when the obvious solution is the one they keep refusing to do: weekly episode releases. A show like this might have benefited from a weekly drop, extending out the tease of the heist and get audiences wanting more. I'm fairly sure all the other major streaming services have returned to weekly releases for their "major" shows - Netflix becoming an outlier.

cdgalwegian

Finished this a while ago. Thought it was ok overall. The finale was pretty good, mind. I don't think the 'kaleidoscopic' format as it's done here is a game-changer, particularly as it's not really kaleidoscopic. All it really did was allow the pieces to come together in the ante-penultimate episode of its chronological order. A proper kaleidoscopic puzzle format would have been to have all the pieces in the one time period, from different perspectives: so that the order doesn't matter, but all the perspectives need to be in place for it to 'click'. No finale needed, just all the pieces.