Can I change my relationship attachment style?(suspected anxious/disorganised style)

TAPIA101

Hi all,

I am a mid-30s, average-looking, male with my own small house in Dublin. I have hobbies, a career and yearn to one day meet a partner and have a family. Things have been going well for me recently, even if things have been busy and I have been improving myself by getting involved with extra-curricular activities and losing weight. As this has happened, I have re-acquainted with acquaintances/friends from my teens/20s.

While I have a relatively large circle of acquaintances, I have few 'close' friends and my relationship experience is near zero. I have had one-night stands and have enjoyed them however I wish to settle down with a partner now....and herein lies the problem.

I believe that I have an anxious or disorganised attachment style. I have been doing research on this and I say this because:

1) I chase women who I consider 'out of my league' looks--wise however am somewhat disinterested in women who show interest in me.

2) I take rejection very poorly internally. I put up a brave-face and accept it outwardly but rejection from small dates or relationships even extremely early on can put me in an internal tailspin for about a week where I will be somewhat shook up mentally/emotionally. 

3) Any previous relationships I have been in have been with women who like me have been outwardly stable and solid but have come from a broken home with split up parents and an unstable attachment style etc. I have also noticed a pattern where I try to date women who are somewhat sexual/kinky relatively early-on, as I am. I believe this is related to my anxious attachment style.

4) I think I seek women with a similar attachment style to me. I can nearly see it in their eyes on the first dates. It is as if I am like a moth to a flame, knowing what is coming (an unstable relationship, bad ending).

I have been in counselling previously but every so often I need a top-up. There is no problem with anyone else but me. Ultimately I want a quiet understanding relationship but it is not what I seek (as per above). 

I believe from research I have done that I have an anxious or anxious--fearful (disorganised) attachment style.

Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of this? Can I change this to a stable attachment style?

Thanks for all comments - they are all helpful.

TheadoreT

Of course you can change it, but requires discipline. Right now you're doing almost everything wrong when it comes to attracting women.

The classic line "I can't get the women I want but the ones who like me I don't like. You're doing everything right to get the ones you don't like interested in you- i.e not overly persuing them.

To create attraction early in dating most women need to feel challenged and that you're better than all her other options. Your anxious personality will almost certainly manifest in you over pursuing and making her feel trapped when she's still unsure of her feelings.

As guys we can almost fall in love at sight of a beautiful woman and our heads run away with dreams of a future with them. But this takes way longer for the average woman. Therefore you need to completely reign in that need for her approval in early dates(or just in general).

It's basically all about having fun and slowly building rapport in early dates. Don't chase her, the less you do the more her attraction will build when she's unsure about your feelings. When she does get in contact just set the next date and don't waffle on all night on texts, texting or endless chats on the phone is also an attraction killer. Don't be negative either, if you have to talk about bad things try put a positive spin on them.

I'm not saying to be an arsehole but dont be that try hard nice guy either(who usually turns when rejected). Compliment her plenty but make sure it's genuine. Do that wrong and it just comes across as transactional for sex. As does expensive meals or gifts or flowers. All absolutely unnecessary, if anything it's counterproductive so save your money.

You sound like a catch from your career/house/hobbies ect. Be confident about your ambitions in life, it's attractive, don't boast about them but frame it more in that it's your purpose and drive in life.

There's no reason you shouldn't be very successful with dating and have your choice of options. Just stop sabotaging attraction with your neediness.

Dial Hard

With respect, TT, I think that's pretty awful advice. The OP's problem isn't "neediness" and you've essentially dressed up that old sow's ear "treat 'em mean to keep 'em keen" as a silk purse. That nonsense doesn't work on the vast, vast majority of women and all it will do is continue to attract the very type the OP has recognised isn't good for him. Confident, well-adjusted, self-secure women can spot those kind of mind games a mile off and will run another mile in the opposite direction at the merest whiff of them.

OP, you've clearly done a lot of research and introspection into your relationship styles and dating habits and that's commendable and a massive first step. I think what you need to do now is find a qualified relationship therapist who specialises in attachment styles and engage with them on how to go about changing yours. I really don't recommend you take the PUA-light course of action advised above, even though I recognise it was made in good faith.

Best of luck.

TheadoreT

I didn't say to treat them mean at all. I'm basically telling him to research attraction. It's essentially doing his interests a favour as he's repelling them right now with his needy behaviours.

The best looking/ most confident and secure women are often the most sexually frustrated as the majority of guys revert to that over chasing wreck around them. It's just a turn off pure and simple.

bitofabind

I think you're over-pathologising and intellectualising OP, maybe as a coping mechanism. It's great to be self-aware, but paralysis by analysis isn't going to solve anything as it doesn't seem to be having an impact on your behaviour and may lead to internalised shame and feeling like there's something "wrong" with you. There's not.

We do the things that we do because there's a pay-off, simple as that. What's the pay-off with toxic relationships for you? What do you get out of chasing women that cause chaos in your life, instead of being pulled towards someone stable, steady and emotionally available? Is this style of attachment one that's familiar to you? What kind of caregivers did you have as a child? What didn't happen for you then, that you're trying to solve for now, as an adult?

I'll tell you something deeply frustrating and completely useless as a solution. I had to 1. stop dating and 2. stop CARING about dating and 3. let go of the urgency I had around "meeting someone and settling down and oh my god time is running out / I'm so far behind" in order to meet the right person for me. I'd had a terrible breakup and one sh1t dating experience after the next and I was just DONE with it all. I sat down and looked at myself and looked at my life. I looked at my childhood and how I had been parented. I spotted a pattern of going for the same type of guy i.e emotionally unavailable, often narcissistic, and how I translated all the red flags as "chemistry" and how I landed in a pool of tears and insecurity EVERY single time and I realised, I'd rather be single forever than to do that to myself again. That I deserved peace and fulfilment and to feel loved - something I had never felt to that point in my life. That it didn't have to be so hard. That I could make better choices and prioritise myself, instead of chasing the wrong guys and "auditioning" for their "love." That I was good enough; and not feeling that way around someone was a reason to totally disengage.

So the journey became about loving myself and putting my needs first (for the first time ever), and when I started dating again, I did it without that familiar pressure from before; this time it was from a place of empowerment and experiment. I didn't need toxic drama and adrenaline rushes to feel alive anymore. I just wanted peace, mutual respect, intimacy, someone who could love me as I was; and it was grand if I didn't find that. I was grand on my own. I just experimented, and met a few non-starters and then met someone on the same page as me.

It doesn't have to be dramatic and chaotic and a constant struggle. But it is that now, because some part of yourself has been conditioned to think that it should be. Figure out that bit. Be honest with yourself, dig deep. Maybe go back to counselling and get curious about how dating the wrong women is working for you. And get comfortable in your own skin. What's it going to take to feel like you deserve happiness?

TAPIA101

First of all, thank you to all who have commented - it is VERY much appreciated. Your kindness is helping me at this time.

Bitofabind - your comment in particular feels like you have understood me and I just want to say thank you.

For me - I think back to some form of counselling/therapy is required to change my attachment style or at least put myself first a bit more.

I've been wanting a dog for a while (well...more than 20 years) and now that i have my own place, I wonder if a dog would be a worthwhile investment?

This has very much helped me folks. If anyone else has any thoughts, I'd be happy to hear them.

Zak Flaps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119792037#Comment_119792037

A dog? This has taken a bit of a turn!

A dog is a big commitment. Don't get a dog if you're going to leave it on it's own while you are at work. Speaking from experience, being single and having a dog takes away a huge amount of your freedom. I'd suggest getting one (or 2) in the future when circumstances suit more.

Neyite

I had a very similar experience to Bit of a Bind and highly recommend their approach. That's how I did it and it totally changed my relationship style. In my case the therapy started with a womans aid counsellor so kind of an expert in bad relationships really!

Anyway, 20 years on from that, and with about 6 months more of counselling with another therapist, and taking time away from dating, really worked for me. I had to get to know me. Why the guys I went for had similar traits. What was it about them that I found familiar and put it down to chemistry when really all it was, familarity in a different wrapper. Why I was not being assertive and putting my needs first. I also recognised where I saw certain behaviours played out in the adults of my childhood repeating themselves.

After about a year of a break, I had a couple of dates, and the difference in ME changed everything. The first guy, I now had the assertiveness to turn down the date. The second, well, I accepted the date but spotted the bells and flags within an hour of the date, which before I would have either ignored or convinced myself that the unsettling feeling I was getting was butterflies. So progress. The next few dates went the same way then I met someone who I did want to continue to go on dates with. 18 years on we are still together, married, house kid and all that. But I know that the old me would have talked myself out of dating him for all the misguided reasons, or borked the relationship. This is the easiest, most satisfying and fulfilling relationship I've ever had.

So yeah, taking time out to recalibrate my outlook on relationships and dive into where my learned relationship habits came from (and unlearn some, refine others) worked for me too.

bitofabind

Oh man, Neyite your post has reminded me of some bonkers dating experiences I had, pre therapy, pre dating sabbatical, when I viewed myself through everyone else's lens and had no idea who I was. No idea what I needed, or that I was even entitled to have any needs.

I can remember meeting a totally non committed hot-and-cold guy and becoming completely besotted to the point of considering turning vegan because he was a vegan (!!); and another similar type that made me feel so inadequate that I started to re-consider my life goals, "maybe I should run a marathon, maybe I should go back to college.." only to be ghosted a few weeks later. He had a young daughter and a really volatile divorce, but I was willing to accept it all and bend myself like a pretzel in order to be "good enough" for him, this nobody that had shown up offering me precisely nothing after a few dates.

I was like a bull towards a red flag and it all came back to childhood experiences of attachment and playing out the same pattern of relationships because I didn't know what healthy looked like. I went off in the world and achieved a rake of things, but could never acknowledge or feel any bit of it, and the disconnect in my relationships was so strong because of that childhood stuff. I had a brain loop of "not good enough" and "emotionally unavailable is what love looks like" , and that didn't unravel until I sat in the trenches with a therapist and broke down what I believed was a "good childhood" into the reality of what I had internalised and turned into some pretty warped beliefs about myself and about love.

OP: healing is what you need. Healing from something that you may or may not have a notion about at this point. But it's certainly not about the flighty women that you're meeting: it's about how you feel about yourself and what you think love is. It's not melodrama and unpredictability and fireworks and butterflies. It's actually just like meeting your best friend and ally, and the feeling of wrapping yourself up in security blanket. So do the therapy, take a break from dating and get to know yourself. And if you want a dog - provided you've researched pet ownership and deeply considered if you can give a dog a truly good and safe home - then get a dog.

TAPIA101

Thanks again to everyone for your replies - you are all really helping me.

To give a bit of an update - I am more or less over what spurred this off in the first place. It has taken the usual cycle - a bit of rejection or non-follow up with sharing a number or whatever, I get quite upset internally, get put into an internal emotional tailspin for two weeks and after these two weeks I am back to normal with broadly normal sentiment and understanding about everything. But during those two weeks, I am very upset and it is clearly because I take things poorly.

Bitofabind - what you are writing is exactly where I am now. If I meet someone, quite quickly I am thinking of how I can change myself to 'make things work' and can think into the future quite quickly with people I have only gone on a few dates with. The vegan story you wrote is very relatable. I was contemplating moving country for a woman I had only met a couple of times 3 years ago! Your last paragraph was soothing also. Thank you so much - it has resonated with me.

I have had therapy before which has indicated that I need to not be as hard on myself and to find someone nurturing and nourishing in a relationship sense but since I researched attachment styles, it has made me anxious that I have much more work to do on myself primarily (which I am currently organising).

Thanks all - I hope this thread has helped others also.

bitofabind

Hey OP. Glad what I'm saying resonated. Having done my own inner work and had all of these revelations about how we work as humans to protect ourselves in ways that can feel - logically - counter productive. I'm pretty driven to share what I now know when I see similar patterns in others.

Getting tied up in knots over someone after a few dates in not uncommon, it does sound like insecure attachment, it's there because of relational wounds you have from the past and how your brain has been programmed to protect yourself with hypervigilance. Usually it's about primary caregiver / early relationships that were inconsistent, unpredictable, unsafe for you as a child. The one thing I want to stress is that our attachment style can 100% change: when we change on the inside first. For me, the practical modalities of therapy didn't have much impact E.G CBT. Talk therapy, inner child work and reparenting is what got me to a place of safety internally and changed everything, and that was all about having compassion for myself and really connecting to this idea that I was just fighting to stay safe all along and that was playing out in how I dated.

Have a look into "Emotional flashbacks" and Pete Walker's work around this stuff. Going down the rabbit hole after a few dates sounds a bit like that in action. i.e the thing is not about the thing. You're not in fact spiralling because you really really really like this person specifically; it's a flashback to an emotional state you felt in the past where abandonment literally felt like life or death to your younger self (because when we are children, it is just that).

Reading about attachment styles, complex trauma, parenting styles, and the works of Pete Walker, Gabor Mate, Brene Brown and others has really helped me to "get" my behaviour and probably most useful of all - realise I'm not alone, this is a trauma response that a huge majority of people experience, it was never my fault and I deserve peace and healing.

Best of luck with your journey.

Neyite

Yes! that's exactly what I was like @bitofabind

I call it my Chameleon Girlfriend phase. If he liked long hair, I grew it. If he preferred dresses, I'd wear them. I'd hide my CDs and listen to the bands he liked...

Had I met a vegan back then, I'd have wholeheartedly turned vegan and likely been one of those that are insufferable about it! Now I'd actually have the confidence to know I need cheese in my life 😀

@TAPIA101 when you recognise what's going on, it's the biggest part of the battle. Therapy just gives you the tools to mull it all over I think but you're on the right track!

JoChervil

OP, you also have boundaries issues. You need to learn how to set proper boundaries.

People with no boundaries are like sitting safe inside their castles. And when they let other people in, they let them go straight to the heart of it. They are fully closed or fully open. There is no gradation in their dealings with people. You need to learn, how to meet people at the fence, being there with them for some time knowing each other better and then let them in. So you need to set this mental fence around you first.

You chase out of your league women because they are not a threat to you. They safely can get in and off they go chasing more interesting things, while a nice quiet girl can overstay and you will have problem how to get rid of her, if she is not "the one" without feeling guilty, which is the most damaging emotion. That's why you need boundaries to keep people at the proper distance till you are sure about them and ready to let them get closer to you.

I would advise you to delay any sexual contacts. Just try to develop emotional relationship first and clearly state your needs and expectations. Insecure people usually start relationships with sex. And also those who don't want to take responsibility for what is going on. So I think working on your self esteem would help as well. And doing things, when you are fully ready for them and their consequences.

Airyfairy12

Attachments arent fixed, you will always have a core attachment that is in you from when you were an infant but with understanding of yourself and your triggers you can learn to adapt your behaviours. You will really need to work with an attachment informed therapist.

It also sounds like you have no sense of self, thats something else you should work on, you need to develop a core feeling of security within you, that means knowing who you are, what you like and dont like and listening to yourself and your feelings. You might be very disconnected from yourself and this disconnection makes you very vulnerable to manipulation and making bad decisions.