Infrared panels

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1.

redmagic68

hi,

please move this if required, a few people mentioned infared heaters here a few weeks back. A crowd I purchased my energy monitor from are doing them now might be on interest to some.

https://purchase.ie/product/energy-saving/600w-far-infrared-panel

DrPhilG

Might have been me who asked, can't recall.

I'm interested in them, but the main fellas selling them get very quiet when you ask for any real detail on consumption so I'm suspicious. There's an Irish Facebook group which seems to be little more than a big advert group for one of the main Irish sellers but as I say, information is not easy to come by.

DrPhilG

I'm just trying to get an accurate idea on usage.

ie if I turn on a 1kW panel inmy living room for 5 hours, roughly how many units will it use. How much of that 5 hours will it actually be pulling the 1kW and how much will it be in standby.

Of course there are variables like the size of the room, the level of insulation etc. But a rough estimate should be possible.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732395#Comment_119732395

Panels are pretty easy if it's a 1kw panel, it will use 1kwh in a hour.

Will get 1 kwh of heat too.

But I do get what your asking, will it "cycle" like a oil rad.

I suppose it depends on how cold your rooms are.

unkel

Far infrared is very simple. If you have dumb panel like the one I bought from Amazon (€130 delivered) or the one @redmagic68 linked to (€155 delivered), they are always on. Both panels are rated 600W, I measured mine and it drew 555W at the wall. So leave it on for just under 4h and it will have used 2 units (2kWh)

The panels I got have pictures of nature etc. on them, but you can paint over them, preferably with a heat resistant paint like radiator paint. Personally I would prefer the white panels that @redmagic68 got, not a bad price from an Irish crowd and you can paint over them too

You can of course connect these panels to smart plugs to give you control over them, or you can buy slightly more expensive ones that have an app, thermostat built in, etc.

These panels give direct heat, which is very pleasant, it went down well with the family. They heat "you" and the sofa you are sitting on, but not the air around you. So they don't cause air to circulate, which would be good for people who suffer from asthma, etc. It is perfect for heating you at your desk working from home while then not having to use the central heating to heat the whole room or the whole house with convection heating from incorrectly named "radiators" which aren't radiators at all 😁

I now have 2 of these panels in daily use, with 2 more to be delivered next week and a smaller one in a few weeks time

How "good" these are depends largely on your situation. If you are happy to have your workspot heated 9AM-5PM without using your central heating, they win, even if you don't have solar or battery or night rate. Be careful though about using these for all or most of your heating if you pay say 40c for electricity and just 10c for gas, it might then be a lot more expensive. I purposefully charge my 20kWh battery fully at night and it is kept topped up from PV during most days. So in that case it is always better both for your wallet and for the planet, to use these over central gas / oil burning boilers. At least partially. There is only so much that 20kWh can do for heating on a cold winter's day.

DrPhilG

Thanks @graememk & @unkel

My question is, if I turn on a 1kW heater in my living room, one with a thermostat rather than just dumb, for 5 hours in the evening, is it as simple as it'll use 5kWh, or will it turn on and off and use less.

I asked the question on the Facebook group and the fella who runs it said something about it being on 30% of the time, ie it would use around 1.5kWh across the 5 hours. But when I asked for more clarification, no response. Which seems to be the norm on that page.

unkel

Nobody can answer that and an answer of being on 30% seems just a lie from a sales person. If you put that panel in a cold biggish room, and have the the thermostat at 21C, it will likely never reach that temp, so it will not switch off / cycle. So in that case it will be on at full blast for all that time, so it will use 5kWh for those 5 hours

Beware that the panel might draw different power at the wall than what it's rated for. Mine is a 600W panel but only draws 555W

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733419#Comment_119733419

Gonna second what unkel has said,

It all depend on how cold the room is and how warm you want it. (And how cold it is outside)

If it needs 1kw to keep it at the temperature you want, then it will use 1kwh.

Humour me, roughly what size is the radiator in the room? Is it a double or single radiator?

bullit_dodger

Might not be the best thread for this (Quotes), but a few follow on question unkel if you'd be so kind

So I was thinking of mounting one above the monitors on my home office on the wall. Considering the relative short distance (1.5m maybe), is it a case that you can be "too close" to one of these things and "burn de arse off you" :-) ....never experienced infra-red heating so dunno. I'm thinking here of if I mounted a glowing heating element.

Lastly is it controlable. i.e. is it 555W all the time or can you adjust down to say 400W, 300W, etc.

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734118#Comment_119734118

@Jonathan ... When you get a chance. Spin this out into its own thread?

Infrared panels and duty cycle maybe?

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734118#Comment_119734118

Not controllable, but you can buy a small size panel if you don't need much heat or are very close to it. You can touch it by hand for a few seconds even when it's been on a while, so no chance of scalding really. The back of it is cool, which says a lot - it's doing what it is supposed to be doing

Commercial companies sell ones that have a mirror on front, so would be very good for bathrooms

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734568#Comment_119734568

Mirror ones would never fog up either!

Although putting mirror ones on your roof could be controversial 😂

After a panel has been on for most of the day, and then is off does the ambient air be warmer? Heating the air indirectly?

A lot of automation could be built around them

unkel

Indirectly, yes. First law of thermodynamics applies, so if you use electricity to create heat, the heat has to go somewhere. It goes directly into furniture and persons but will eventually warm up the room indirectly

The good thing about the panels is that they can be put on a smart plug (cheap and cheerful) and then indeed you can do all the automation you want, from simple timers to more sophisticated systems like room temperature based etc.

unkel

Got another panel today. This one a little smaller, no on/off button and white. With a schuko plug, but also with a sturdy UK adapter. Rated 450W but drawing 430W at the wall. This one will go beside either of our work from home spaces. It cost €105 incl shipping

con747

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739557#Comment_119739557

I picked up the 600w the other day and a pair of feet to free stand it and see how it goes before deciding on more. Have plenty of spare smart plugs to use on them. A link to the 450w?

bullit_dodger

Nvidia 4090 has a Total power draw of 450w - LOL

fuse

My 450w panel arrived during the week. Have it in my office but only needed to use it once for an hour. Seemed to work well pointed at me but didn't heat the room at all in that short time. Mine is "smart" and came with an app - which ends up creating an issue when you try to use a smart plug. You can leave the power switch in the on position but there's an additional button to power it on, or you can use the app to power it on/off. What a pain!

There is an integration with home assistant though so I ned to check that out.

Link to similar one as the 450w no longer appears https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B08WWTQSXS

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739653#Comment_119739653

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09W92NYW5/ref%3Dppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This one

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740038#Comment_119740038

I find Nivida higher end cards noisy and not very efficient, but to give you an idea, a silent mid range AMD card makes about €0.20 in coin per day and costs about €0.24 in electricity (at €0.08 / kWh), so crypto mining is still an extremely efficient and cheap way to heat your home. During night rate hours only though or from battery

That's a COP of 6. The best heat pump in the world can't beat that 😂

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740433#Comment_119740433

I agree with all that for sure - nahh I was just chucking it out there as the 4090's got released yesterday, so it was "in the news" so to speak and coincidentally the power draw just happens to be the same as the Infrared panel you got.

AMD cards being better has been like that since crypto mining started. The mid to even lower ranged AMD cards generally have/had the best hash/watt. However, I'm a huge gamer and I buy cards for gaming.....with the side benefit of keeping the office warm when I'm working.

Still haven't turned on the heating yet this year. Well hard me! :-)