Should President Biden meet Putin?

AMKC

My own opinion is no at least not untill Putin either calls back his army or stops firing missiles at Ukraine for more than a week. Then maybe he could consider it but even at that it would be like when Trump met Ching quan q or whatever the North Korean leaders name is.

Faugheen

Yes, he should.

On the condition that Putin gets the f*ck out of Ukraine.

Sandor Clegane

What would be the point? Russia have turned themselves into a pariah state under Putin, Russia should only be entertained now if they decide to cop on, but the only realistic way of that happening is with Putin gone, but if and when that'll happen is anyone's guess.

The mistake the west made was helping to create the conditions that allowed Putin to come to power. They should not talk to him because to do so would offer legitimacy to his approach to statecraft.

Only when the Russian people depose Putin should the west re-engage with Russia, and at that point they would do well to not repeat the same mistakes as they did at the end of the Soviet era. All of our security depends on Russia been a viable and functional nation and only the west can help to make that happen.

Larbre34

Why are you asking?

There is currently no basis for a meeting of those two men, no reason at all.

Anyone who meets Putin as an equal, endorses him. It goes for Xi, Modi, Erdoğan, Imran Khan, Orban, all those d*ickheads.

The only message Putin needs to understand from the West, is that NATO are going to support Ukraine until they win. And if Putin tries to expand the conflict, into Central Europe, Scandinavia, Moldova, the Balkans, the Middle East - wherever, NATO will vaporise him, his Capital and all his military forces.

y0ssar1an22

what i would like to see is a high profile US politician go to kiev.

for example, if biden rocked up in kiev tomorrow, the russian bombardment would stop. 100% instantly, i have no doubt.

so should he meet putin? possibly, knowing diplomacy is always better.

russia do have the leverage of knowing NATO will never let ukraine join, so thats an issue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732690#Comment_119732690

Why is it an issue ? most Europeans couldn't give a sh1t about Ukraine especially now with the economy going to Sh1t and they with their own problems.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732699#Comment_119732699

i agree that europenas (for the most part) dont actually give a ****. just once we're grand and the gas keeps coming.

why is it an issue? cos if ukraine join nato, the defense pact means the rest of nato have to step in:

collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.

hence why, let ukraine burn. i will need to read more into it but i was under the impression that there was a treaty that nato would not expand east.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732831#Comment_119732831

There was no Treaty that NATO would not expand East. Quite the contrary, Russia is signed up to the OSCE charter which recognises the freedom of all states in Europe to decide who they wish to have collective defence arrangements with.

What you're referring to is Putinist garbage myth and propaganda about what the US said to Gorbachev in a meeting as the Berlin wall fell. It has been debunked by numerous academics and Gorbechev himself before he died.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732833#Comment_119732833

you could well be right, hence why i said i would need to read into it more.

there will have been clearly defined treaties after the fall of the USSR. common sense dictates that, 2 nuke powers measuring dicks, horny to offload.

the attitude cant have been...it'll be grand? lets just let metallica play and it'll be grand.

maybe i'm being naïve here

Strumms

You can’t negotiate with crazy or evil. As regards Putin, he has both and both are in spades..

a quote from the beginning of the invasion by Putin..

”consequences greater than any you have faced in history” ….as relates to the result of any interference from the west, this was the speech he made in February.

that very statement alone takes negotiations off the table… basically you can’t trust crazy and he certainly is that and some. He is mad.. bonkers… evil and dangerous. Why talk when he simply cannot be trusted ? You can only be reasonable with reasonable people.

Russia should be annexed. As long as they are posing a threat to Europe. Not a single Russia citizen should be allowed into the EU, for work, for any reason.. to be honest if the British, US, France, Germany (ohh so quiet, hmm) could just get together and level Russia to ash tomorrow…why not ? Russia threaten the US, the EU… why not take that threat at face value ? “ he won’t do it ! “ he will if he needs to. There maybe some posturing, crazy bravado and just overall crazy… look what he’s doing to the Ukraine, so it’s not a threat, he just doesn’t want the EU on his borders / doorstep. A country taking a democratic political step towards the EU and it’s such a threat he invades.

what’s the endgame ?

As of 26 July 2022, around five months after the beginning of the war, around 10 million border crossings from Ukraine had been recorded, and over six million individual refugees from Ukraine had been registered across Europe, according to UN ‘estimates’..plenty more now…

so what does Biden or any politician or politicians, say to a guy like Putin ? Fûck all in my opinion, because there is NOTHING you can do or say, you cannot negotiate with crazy, you just can’t.

how does this end ? Does is get worse before it gets better, more violence, nuclear escalation ? What ?

picking up the phone won’t do jack… no way an in person because there is zero trust.

EOQRTL

Yes. There's no blood thicker than ink. The risk of nuclear war is too high not to at least make the effort to talk Putin down off the edge.

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732699#Comment_119732699

They'd give a shít when putin, who after finishing off Ukraine rebuilds his military, gets bored and starts rolling into Europe, for the craic as it were.

Appeasement didn't work in 1938, and it ain't gonna work now....

Biden meeting putin only gives him PR oxygen.

Cody montana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732699#Comment_119732699

This is absolute rubbish.

Like it or not, we are all in Europe.

This was an a attack on all of us and on all our values.

Gatling

No .

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733044#Comment_119733044

Biden is a dangerous fool, the whole Biden Admin and democratic party, they're more interested in starting wars and creating division in their own country, calling Trump supporters terrorists was just insane.

ancapailldorcha

No.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732666#Comment_119732666

needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, you know, how bad does energy costs have to get or how many businesses will have to close before we realise funding the war machine to keep it going was a mistake ?

If the EU hadn't got involved or the US it would have ended ages ago.

Biden should crawl under whatever rock he came from, useless senile prick warmonger, a Man that in 2 years has messed up his own country that will take probably decades to fix and turning Americans against each other is pitiful to watch and Kamala is a useless cackling fool.

Eh no it was Trump that messed up America and turned Americans against each other not Biden.

Kamala is very clever. She does not come into the limelight unless she needs to she is very careful in what she says and she could very well be the next president of the USA and the first Female president and about time too.

Biden is doing what he needs to do. He is a clever president not causing devision or hurt or saying people should drink something that could kill them like Trump said when he said what if people just drink dettol remember that? , and some people mostly Trump supporters did so no great loss. They were actually stupid enough to believe Trump and do it.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733767#Comment_119733767

Trumpster nonsense. How many wars has Biden started?

joseywhales

Does the us set the price of LNG? Isn't it sold by corporations? Is the nationality of the corporation relevant?

The rise in conspiratorial nutter mad lads is the worst thing to come out of covid imo. They are determined to take opposite position to reality at all costs, conjuring complete nonsense in the process.

Rawr

Biden should certainly meet Putin....to accept the unconditional surrender of Putin himself and every other monstrous f*ckwit responsible for this disaster, to be handed to the ICC to answer for their crimes.

I would be fine with that kind of meeting.

Tonesjones

Why would Putin want to meet Biden though?

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734807#Comment_119734807

Legitimatizes his status on the world stage, the same reason Kim was desperate to meet that orange gimp Trump.

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734831#Comment_119734831

He is already well established and legitimised on the world stage without meeting Biden.

I doubt he gives a fiddlers about Biden. He will still be there after Biden has moved on just like the few before him.

Dictator Kim is firing rockets over Japan these days. Someone should do something about that

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734852#Comment_119734852

Legitimized by who? What allies have they made this year? What bridges have they extended?

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734852#Comment_119734852

Putin's reputation is in tatters.... he's lost all credibility in the West, he had to apologise to the Chinese (or at least eat a bit of humble pie), and who knows what the Indians think of him, maybe the "Cheap Petrol Man"?

That accounts for a huge chunk of the world's wealth, the most influential countries and certainly a huge chunk of the world population, he needs to try and maintain his status somehow, talking with the USA would help with that.

Be interesting to see what russian state propaganda makes of talks / no talks.

Tonesjones

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734889#Comment_119734889

He's essentially at war with the west. His military is fighting an army that is being supplied and funded by the west.

Meeting Biden for anything diplomatic is nonsense.

He is more likely to drop a Tzar bomba on Kiev than go meet Joe

Beasty

Mad_Lad threadbanned

Muahahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732852#Comment_119732852

Yes there were indeed nuclear treaties post USSR, here is the one between Ukraine and Russia

In 1996 Ukraine handed over nuclear weapons to Russia "in exchange for a guarantee never to be threatened or invaded".

Yes, absolutely diplomacy is better than death. They need to meet on an equal level, leader to leader and not pontificate to each other. Start finding middle ground or this thing will go on for years.

Brid Hegarty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732699#Comment_119732699

Speaking for yourself?

Psychedelic Hedgehog

He should only meet Putin in the context of a negotiated agreement to pull back to pre-2014 borders and to discuss reparations for all the unspeakable atrocities that have been carried out in his name.

Then, off to The Hague.

(I can dream, right)

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735741#Comment_119735741

How about putin withdraws from all of Ukrainan territory including Crimea first

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733782#Comment_119733782

Eh none.

Silentcorner

You couldn't send Biden, no possible way....send Harri....no, send Pelos....actually, send Biden!!

(If we can't joke on the brink of WW3 when can we joke)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735895#Comment_119735895

In an ideal world. But this is world does not fit that description unfortunately. Diplomacy is the only way out. Has always been the better alternative to prolonging death and suffering.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736311#Comment_119736311

Then the only other option is more and better weapons to Ukraine,

until Putin withdraws from all of Ukraine

Option A - stay and die in large numbers and run out of equipment and men.

Option B - leave now count the 90,000 dead soliders as a harsh lesson and never bother Ukraine again .

There's nothing else to discuss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736453#Comment_119736453

Ok if it were a non nuclear power, beat the living crap out of them and wear them into the ground. But even that approach didn't work out too well with the Taliban, they're running the place now. Russia has 1000's of nukes. Large parts of the west want to see them humiliated. History tells us this is a very dangerous strategy.

Personally, I'd take diplomacy any day over prolonging death. Prolonging death and destruction is leading to increasing escalations. Nobody thinks they're going to die unless it's staring them in the face, even then we think we can escape it. History has demonstrated on many occasions that the unthinkable will not happen, yet it has always happened. If this conflict is encouraged to be prolonged and it leads to a nuclear conflict we are all screwed. Expensive gas bills and figuring out what the current thing to support is will be the very least of our priorities.

I hope I'm wrong, but I hope we do not look back with regret that we did not apply the same fervor on our governments to take diplomatic action to end this war as we did when we refused to pay a couple of hundred euros a year water charges or similar types of protests in other countries.

There's also something else to discuss, diplomacy is the only way to de-escalate, stop death, and reduce the risk of nuclear conflict.

lizzyjane

Jaw jaw is better than war war.

Unless your one of the arm chair Colonels on here.

Silentcorner

The absence of any meaningful calls for peace is a strange one, it's been that way from the start!

War is madness! Our Government are preparing for Oil shortages, by positioning emergency legislation which will involve "laws" restricting our civil liberties.......again.

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736642#Comment_119736642

There have been plenty of calls for peace. Every call for Russian withdrawal from the land it has illegally entered is a call for peace.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736311#Comment_119736311

You cannot negotiate with an aggressive nation - as it represents rewarding that aggression. Russian must lose this war otherwise all of eastern Europe will be under existential threat. This is the problem with someone like Trump who would consider negotiating with a tyrant and would give up someone elses territory to secure a false peace. It was tried at the start of the second worlds war with hitler and we all know where that lead.

Putin is absolutely mad and misinformed (a victim of his own propeganda and a series of easy victories against tiny enemies boosting his ego) - if there are negotiations it must be through back channels and not with Putin.

Donald Trump

There is no point in the doddery oul' eejit meeting him. He won't understand Russians or how their mind works.

That kind of knowledge only comes after you've been pi$$ed on from a great height by hookers in a Moscow hotel. Or so I have been told. Allegedly.