07 fiesta excess coolant use

Damien360

07 fiesta, works fine as long as it’s moving but if you idle for 10-15mins it overheats. It is not Smokey, no residue on oil cap, but it’s going through coolant. Using the ford pink coolant and adding 50:50 water to it. Sons car, reckons it’s a head gasket blown on the exhaust side. Coolant goes to minimum level from full in about a week. Is this correct diagnosis ?

other stupid additions on his car. Cut the exhaust off (yes you read that), and has a KN filter in place of the ford air intake.

edit: 130km on clock. Will be doing 1000km per week for his college travel. 1.2 petrol engine

BlakeS94

Doubtful it's a head gasket.

My first guess would be water pump, after that would be thermostat.

Car wouldn't consistently overheat with head gasket issue 10-15 minutes after driving. That length of time would indicate to me that the water pump isn't allowing coolant flow or is reducing coolant flow,

or the thermostat isn't opening as 10-15 after startup is usually when coolant reaches the required temperature for the thermostat to open.

If it seems okay when driving which is higher RPM than idling, I'd say water pump is on the way out but is still keeping up with higher RPMs.

Check for coolant leaks on the passenger side of the engine, where the Serpentine belt is. Also the opposite where thermostat is.

Could also just be a leak in a coolant hose and it's overheating because levels are low.

....or its a head gasket

Damien360

Thanks for the detailed reply. I’ll take a look at that later today.

CreadanLady

unless there is a drip in it that is leaving a wet mark on the ground, then it is almost certainly the head gasket.

Even if the original leak is in a hose or pump, or a drip on the radiator that is itself easily fixed, the fact that the car has been overheating means that damage may be being done.....it is all the more likely that the head gasket is going or gone, even if it was not the source of the original leak.

you might fix the drip, only to find a few weeks later that the head gasket is going on account of repeated overheating events. So you ought to be assuming that the gasket is fúcked too. Even if it hasn't gone yet, the fact that the head has been stressed by overheating means that its reliability is now compromised, and you will never be able to depend on it. It could go at any moment, or it could last forever - you just don't know now.

On a 2007 Fiesta, doing the head wouldn't be worth it. Fix will cost far more the car is worth.

If it were me, I'd keep on with the top ups and just drive it on until til failure.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725579#Comment_119725579

Jesus I do hate these sorts of remarks

We’ve a country, in fact a planet, overrun with “scrap” because constantly we are thrashing things that can be fixed. Laptops, phones, washing machines, cars etc. if it can be fixed it SHOULD be fixed.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725579#Comment_119725579

It’s running fine other than that, despite what he has done to it. He is 18 and doesn’t have money for a new one. He is doing a mechanic apprenticeship so it’s a good test for him.

No leaks confirmed as he had it up on a lift in work last week. He has a spare water pump from another car so that’s the first thing to try.

Also, 2007 cars are going for stupid money right now. It would cost 2500 to replace. 08 cars looking for closer to 4000 with NCT. The market is a mess.

CreadanLady

Replacing water pump with a second hand one? Sure fire way to have to replace it again in a short amount of time.

OT but if doing a mechanic apprenticeship, then he will be driving banger fiestas for life. it is the worst paid trade in existence. And once the transition to EVs is complete, it'll be a dead trade since EVs don't need hardly any servicing bar tyres, brakes etc that most tyre places do. And for the most part the are extremely reliable, but when they do fail, the powertrain components are sealed non-servicable (for mainstream mass market stuff) and it is usually cheaper to replace the car under lease than to do repairs.

Damien360

Putting a brand new water pump in would be preferable but considering the car value, not that important.

I’m not bothered about the EV future. There will be ICE cars on the road for a very long time. He can re-train for EV’s but a ball joint is still a ball joint regardless of car. Electrical issues will be the future of EV’s when they age and he can learn about it when needed.

He is 18 and working, not sitting in bed all day scratching his arse and that’s the important thing. Yes I know it’s paid poorly but it’s what he likes and plenty of people would love a job doing what they love.

CoBo55

Is the heater working? Does the radiator fan cut in? Unfortunately not having a temperature gauge doesn't help either.

CreadanLady

The next generation of EVs won't even have ball joints. Steering will be electrically actuated from the outboard end, without racks or linkages and the motor/hub units will be sealed assemblies that will last the expected life of the vehicle. Even the brakes won't have discs or pads, they will be electric brakes that can lock the hub by applying an active, reactionary force via the 4 outboard sealed motor-hub units, one on each wheel. (different to regenerative breaking btw, it would take energy).

EV of the future will need nothing only tyres and to be plugged in. And they will be so reliable and so technologically complex that repairs will be neither necessary nor possible.

Mechanic trade for a new entrant is a dead end. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but in the future it will be the same as being a cobbler or miliner - the preserve of artisans and enthusiasts.

BlakeS94

CreadanLady you're one depressing f@!k.

OP change out the waterpump. If he's mechanically minded it will cost him nothing and if he has a good part, used or not. It's worth it, might discover that the impeller is broken.

If the head gasket was gone you'd have much more dramatic symptoms. White smoke out the back, more like fog than smoke, misfires, low compression etc.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726161#Comment_119726161

Fan is spinning away. Temp gauge in car is actually reading. It’s just when the car is in idle for 10-15mins it overheats. Air flow when moving actually keeps the temperature steady at 90C as per cabin gauge.

Damien360

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726360#Comment_119726360

Out of curiosity. Would you get white smoke if head gasket is gone on exhaust side only or does it matter. He has cut the exhaust off to make it noisey.

CreadanLady

Being gone on the "exhaust side" doesn't make any sense. The exhaust ports don't pass through the head.

Now what can happen is that the gasket can fail, either between the cycliner and the water jacket leading to extreme radiator pressures, pipe blow offs, white "smoke" and boil overs, or it can fail between the water jacket and the oil channels leading to watery oil or oily water, or you could have both failures.

There is no such thing as it failing on the "exhaust side" or the "intake side" as such. Cutting off the exhaust would have no bearing on the head gasket.

Sounds like the car is already fúcked anyway if he is after butchering the exhaust. Failure may be a result of him reddening and rallying the car around the place.

😂

Car mechanics are on the way out when EV’s gain more traction..

Jesus now I’ve heard everything!

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726383#Comment_119726383

I didn't think it had a temperature gauge, my son has a 2010 one and it doesn't have a gauge. Can you feel a strong push of air around the engine bay when the fan kicks in? The blades could be slipping on the motor shaft, don't stick your fingers in to investigate 💥. Check the front of the radiator isn't choked to death with dead bugs etc.

CoBo55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726541#Comment_119726541

A failed O ring on the inlet manifold can allow water to be sucked into the engine giving the symptoms of head gasket failure. It's usually a party trick performed by the infamous rover K series engine...

CreadanLady

I wouldn't pay much heed to the temperature guage on the dash board. They are not really accurate in the sense that the needle gives a true reflection of the temperature as it rises. They are pretty much set up to give 3 basic readings - cold, normal and overheat. The engine could be actually running very very hot for ages, but just barely below the threshold that will cause the guage to jump to "overheat" and it will be telling you that all is normal.

Best way to track temperature is to get an EOBD dongle and phone app and that will give you the true temperature reading.

BlakeS94

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726395#Comment_119726395

White smoke is just a result of coolant burning in the combustion chamber. Depends on if there's a crack in the gasket between Chambers, coolant and/or oil galleys

Damien360

@BlakeS94 , @CoBo55 quick update. Brought it to a very experienced retired mechanic (70 year old). He said its definitly not the head gasket gone. The thermostat was not kicking in the fan until the car was very, very hot. So that explains why I saw the fan spinning. It was roasting ! Water pump is definitly working away as i can see the coolant hitting the back wall of the bottle on return. The mechanic tried a new thermostat but its still not right so he is going to wire in a manual switch for the fan into the cabin. With a bit of luck the car will continue for another little while. Thats the last bit of money to put into it other than re-fit the exhaust and a quick service ourselves. NCT due in a few weeks. Thanks for all your help so far.

CoBo55

Many thanks for the update. What controls the fan is a thermostatic switch, I think there are 2 on the fiesta one for the guage and one for the fan, he could have replaced the wrong one. It's definitely worth the extra expense getting a genuine one from Ford as those auto factor ones can be way off in accuracy. I wouldn't be happy about a manual switch, he'll surely forget to turn it on and cook the engine completely. Having the fan running continuously would nearly be better, the thermostat will still control the temperature allowing the engine to warm up properly etc.