Anonymity of juveniles found guilty of heinous crimes.

political analyst

Is it the case that judges in the Republic of Ireland, unlike their counterparts in Britain, don't have the power to remove the anonymity of juveniles who have been found guilty of murder and other heinous crimes even when the criminals have reached the age of 18?

If it is, then the names of the perpetrators of the following murders, if they had taken place in the Republic, would not be public knowledge.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-37648194

Why would legislators in this country regard it as being in the public interest to preserve the anonymity of these criminals?

Victor

Because they are children.

DrumSteve

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704586#Comment_119704586

This is the only relevant answer for this thread.

Allinall

There are no longer children when they reach 18 years of age.

Why can't they be named then?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704743#Comment_119704743

They were children when the crime occurred. Presumably they served their time and are now entitled to get on with their lives.

What benefit would there be by naming them when they turn 18?

GM228

Previous thread on the issue:-

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230672/anonymity-for-offenders-who-commit-crimes-as-children-what-is-the-law

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704860#Comment_119704860

So if the English case that I linked had taken place in the Republic, we'd be unaware that a girl who was both the daughter of one victim and the sister of the other victim would be entitled not to be publicly names even when she reaches 18? How could it not be in the public interest to name her and her accomplice, who was her boyfriend?

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704862#Comment_119704862

That thread was started months ago. I was waiting for one of the cases that is mentioned in that OP to conclude, which it did earlier today, before starting my OP.

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704734#Comment_119704734

No, it's not. It's in the public interest to be 'in the know' about a multiple-murder case in which the perpetrator is both a child and sibling of the victims, even when the perpetrator is a juvenile.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705022#Comment_119705022

Do you then agree with the manner in which the case against the killers of Jamie Bulger was handled? Did Thompson and Venables receive impartial justice for what they did and, if not, why? The UK's justice system is not one that I think we should necessarily emulate!

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705069#Comment_119705069

In hindsight, considering that they were much younger than case in which a girl was involved in the murders of her sister and her mum, the boys who murdered James Bulger shouldn't have been named. Obviously, the authorities in Britain were not used to dealing with such cases, given that over 25 years had passed since the Mary Bell case.

Otherwise, the trial was sound - the defence lawyers used every defence they could use in the eyes of the law as it was at the time and there never was the slightest doubt about the defendants' guilt.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705044#Comment_119705044

Indeed it was, but it answers your query.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705022#Comment_119705022

We simply do not know what the case would be if it were to happen here, a judge here could just as easily lift the reporting restrictions here the same way the did in the UK.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705058#Comment_119705058

That a topic decided by the court, the courts decide what's in the public interest, not the public.

It's not simply a question of being in the public interest, the accused and the victim/family interests also have to be weighed up, the law is the same in Ireland and the UK.

Infact it's worth pointing out that anonymity is the same in most jurisdictions around the world, based on what is considered best practice for under 18s in criminal trials under international law.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704860#Comment_119704860

What benefit would there be by naming them when they turn 18?

I think this is the best point that can be made for this case and all other cases. Naming killers does nothing for nobody except maybe cause hassle for the cops who have to give them new identities. And then you don't know their identities any more

Strumms

If you have the capability to commit say a premeditated murder or premeditated sexual assault as a minor, a serious physical assault , you’ll certainly have the capability to repeat it as an adult…so hiding the identity of these people, young or otherwise might be in ‘their’ interests but it’s not in the greater public interest.

55.2% of people released from prison in 2014 reoffended within 3 years. Nearly 80% of all those aged under 21 when they were committed to prison reoffended within three years of being released, and 75% of people imprisoned for public order offences reoffended within three years….

the duty of the criminal justice system is to protect the public from those who’d do them harm. Not to enable wellbeing, comfort or opportunities for criminals. Young or otherwise.

look at Jon Venebles who killed Jamie Bulger, convicted subsequently for having hundreds of images of child sex abuse, convicted for assault…public have a right to know.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705193#Comment_119705193

As a child that has commited premeditated murder or sexual assault you also have the ability to be rehabilitated, by your figures, up to a 45% chance. If such a persons name is released to the public does that make them more likely to stop offending? I don't think it does

I take your comment about Jon Venebles and contrast it to the post-prison life of Robert Thompson and I ask what benefit does knowing their names make? Especially considering Thompsons new identity is still unknown

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705354#Comment_119705354

They are not my figures, they are numbers directly provided by the Irish Penal Reform Trust.

https://www.iprt.ie/latest-news/high-rates-of-reoffending-following-imprisonment-for-less-serious-crime-demands-alternative-response-iprt/

the problem isn’t Thompson but it clearly is Venables, therefore people should know.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705378#Comment_119705378

What benefit would knowing make? And would knowing Thompson's new identity be good or bad for his rehabilitation?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705389#Comment_119705389

I’d suggest he isn’t capable of rehabilitation given his original crime and subsequent ones…

people know, people keep away from him.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705402#Comment_119705402

Might there be a link between his identity being made public and then shunned by society and his subsequent crimes?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705402#Comment_119705402

What proof do you have that he isn't capable of rehabilitation? Unlike Venables there hasn't been a squeak of wrongdoing from him since he was released from prison 21 years ago, so he's either rehabilitated or dead or maybe back in prison on the QT

I disagree that people would keep away from him. I think he'd be targeted by mobsters, possibly even murdered.

Also, and most importantly, why would people need to stay away form a rehabilitated man?

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705440#Comment_119705440

Because he reoffended…. In a big way..

Thompson, not much is known about, but the recidivism numbers prove my point, not Thompson ‘presumably’ not reoffending. Stats are clear. IPRT stats are enough for me.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705435#Comment_119705435

Child abuse images…. I doubt it.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705520#Comment_119705520

Wasn't that Venables, not Thompson?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705518#Comment_119705518

What those figures prove is that roughly half of the offenders come out of the system as better people, which is the case with Venables and Thompson. One of them is back behind bars and the other is likely not

political analyst

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119705127#Comment_119705127

Interestingly, in England, there are recent cases in which the anonymity of juvenile defendants is still in effect, e.g. the boy who stabbed a girl to death in the Merseyside area. Furthermore, the two girls who murdered Angela Wrightson are staying anonymous - at least one reason for that is the fact that one of the girls was suicidal.

GM228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119718507#Comment_119718507

Very few ever get lifetime anonymity in the UK, I think only around 6 or 7 to date have received such orders.

TooTired123

There’s a clip going around social media today of 2/3 young lads in a car swerving to knock a cyclist of his bike.

Of course whoever is in the passenger seat is filming away for it to be uploaded to WhatsApp.

Their faces are clearly visible.

Tweeters are trying to alert Traffic Gardai, but it’s truly chilling stuff.