Leaking roof

Conology

I'm not sure if this is the correct area to post this but if not please delete it.

Just wondering if there are any ways to find where water may be coming into the kitchen.

It's a new extension & the builder is very slow to do anything despite repeated assurances verbally & in writing that he would guarantee his work.

I seem to be left with sorting it out.

I'd appreciate any guidance.

Thank you

The Continental Op

You could put a coloured dye where you think its coming in? If that doesn't show up inside then try somewhere else. I've seen leaks come from "miles" away from where you'd expect so you need to check everywhere.

A damp meter might help trace back to the source and infra red thermal imaging might show the wet area up as being colder.

Just running a hose on the area you think is leaking is a common way of checking.

rje66

Got any pics??

the_pen_turner

what kind of roof. where is it leaking

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119694095#Comment_119694095

It may not be the roof,

not enough information.

the_pen_turner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698014#Comment_119698014

very true. op says its the roof though. definetly not enough info

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119694037#Comment_119694037

Dont think

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119693676#Comment_119693676

Thank you for your suggestions, much appreciated

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698230#Comment_119698230

I should have said "Ceiling" in the kitchen, above that ceiling is a flat roof ( Balcony ) it's covered in Fibreglass, there's a further Storey off of the balcony which is also a flat roof in Fibreglass. It has 1 window & double doors onto the balcony. It has larch T & G panels. Hope that's useful.

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698014#Comment_119698014

I should have said "Ceiling" in the kitchen, above that ceiling is a flat roof ( Balcony ) it's covered in Fibreglass, there's a further Storey off of the balcony which is also a flat roof in Fibreglass. It has 1 window & double doors onto the balcony. It has larch T & G panels. Hope that's useful.

The Continental Op

My point would be the leak could be coming from anywhere above the ceiling. One I can remember with a flat roof was rain getting into the base of a rotten window two floors above the flat roof.

If its a bad leak then just running water on areas you think may the be cause would help isolate it - provided you can put up with the mess.

How old is the fiber glass? Is there any sign of it failing?

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119701370#Comment_119701370

Thanks for the info. Its a new Extension, Fibreglass only laid in the last 6 months, Windows Doors - All New

The Continental Op

Then really the only places that you need to look carefully at are where the fiberglass joins the building and anything else that it had to be put around on the balcony. Was it laid around the balcony railings -if there are any? Were any fittings screwed back down through the fiberglass? Is there a drain through the fiberglass?

GreeBo

Does it leak with any bit of rain or only heavy rain or only rain driving in a specific direction?

Does the roof puddle?

Any signs of cracks near where the puddles form?

With a new fibreglass roof its probably an issue where the roof meets the wall or along an edge, but it could be a crack in the main body.

The problem with flat roofs is that where the water gets in and where it ends up can be far apart...

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119703118#Comment_119703118

No balcony railings yet, but on the to-do list. There were several layers of Fibreglass laid on the flat parts & up along the sides

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119703131#Comment_119703131

Thats what I've noticed, it only seems to leak when the rain is driving in a certain direction.

Even with 2 outlet pipes, there are small puddles lodging. So the level of the floor is not falling enough to take away all the surface water. It might not look significant but it's not something you would want to be walking in on a balcony of all places where you might occasionally sit outside.

The Continental Op

If there is more than one layer of fiberglass then it won't be the fiberglass roof thats leaking, you can get pin holes in one layer but won't happen in two and then there is a top coat. How was the joint made between the fiberglass and the back wall of the balcony. On a flat roof there is normally a fillet piece that goes in up the wall and under the main roof. In your case there should at least be a section that goes a little way up the wall which I would have thought would have its own weather strip chased into the wall to seal the top of it. Something like this....

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707604#Comment_119707604

It is mainly a Timber Frame structure, with Concrete block on the outside of most walls - except one. This one has only Timber as it directly over the centre of the 1st storey extension.

All walls are covered in Larch T/G with a layer of Damp Course behind the Larch.

The Continental Op

So what is the detail where the fiberglass roof meets the wall? Whats the wall its connected to made of, not whats below it but how is connected to the part of the balcony where you walk out on to it?

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712902#Comment_119712902

The fiberglass goes up under the wall(Larch), so water should?? not get in behind it.

The Continental Op

Driving water can get behind it if it doesn't go up far enough. You should have a membrane of some sort under the larch which would have had to have been cut to fit the fiberglass how that was done could also impact the water tightness. Its all in the detailing of the finish. The membrane should come down over the fiberglass where the larch covers it. If no membrane with driving rain water will get around the joints in the larch. Water could still be getting in further up and running down the wall and in at the join to the wall if the detail is wrong.

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119720595#Comment_119720595

Yes - there is a membrane behind the larch.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722166#Comment_119722166

But how is is fitted around the fiberglass?

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119722171#Comment_119722171

As far as I can recall it goes up over the Fibreglass, but I hope to have the builder here tomorrow & I'll try confirm that.

Assuming it is the case, any further ideas.. and thanks for your help also, much appreciated.

The Continental Op

I think all you can do is ask the builder exactly what he has done so you can then check if he has actually done what he says and if what he says is adequate. How is the larch T&G attached, ideally it should be screwed in with stainless steel screws if so you can remove the bottom section to check whats going on behind. How are the boards laid vertically (up and down) or horizontally (across)? Vertically is "architectural" but crap imo for anywhere that gets driving rain.

Another thing I've found useful when it comes to stuff that happens when it rains (roofs and drains) is to get the waterproofs on, get out in the worst rain and just look for yourself. I wondered recently why my drive was attracting so much water, a walk up the road in pissing down rain reminded me a road drain needed maintaining (did it myself council haven't bothered in the last 5 years).

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724718#Comment_119724718

Thanks again, good advice,

I know its extreme but ?? would you think that using say Tech7 on the joints might stop any possible (??) leaks at the joints (Vertical) where each sheet of Larch meets, just in case there's an area which might not be fully sealed.

I'll update you again after the builder comes, in the meantime I'm doing some close checking as well

The Continental Op

If its vertically lapped driving rain can hit the joints and penetrate as the water runs down making the membrane underneath very important.

This isn't a job that should be botched with say Tech7 (the wood will move anyway making it useless) it needs doing right.

Another option for testing is to wait till its rained really hard then remove one of the panels (with T&G that may not be possible but shiplap easy enough) and see what water has got behind it. If its dry then thats not the problem.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119724889#Comment_119724889

Glueing t&g joints is not a good idea, timber needs to expand and contract.

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725372#Comment_119725372

Ok, I accept that, so I won't go with that. At this stage I'm so frustrated by this I'd try anything. Thanks again

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725217#Comment_119725217

Ok, I accept that, so I won't go with that. At this stage I'm so frustrated by this I'd try anything. Thanks again

The Continental Op

If you can prove the water is being blown in over the top of the balcony and going down the back wall someway I wonder if that effect could be reduced if you had a glass balcony balustrade?

Conology

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726486#Comment_119726486

That's exactly what we are doing.

It is something I also thought might have a positive effect, it remains to be seen.

I hope to have it installed in about 3 - 4 weeks time all going well.

The Continental Op

It would be good to have some pictures of the damp spot and that back wall?