Golf course architects in Ireland

blue note

Have people any strong thoughts on the different architects in Ireland? I started reading tom doaks book the anatomy of a golf course after playing at Patrick's. I was always a bit curious to hear an architect talk about course design and it's very interesting. Flicking around the courses in Ireland it seems to be the same names popping up again and again designing most of them. Pat ruddy has done some great work, Eddie Hackett that bit older again but seems to have his name on some superb courses. Jeff howes did a redesign of tramore when I was a member and did a great job. And I see his name pop up all the time when I'm looking at courses I'd like to play.

Then there's the big names doing one or two courses. Tom doak and Gil hanse in Donegal probably the biggest of these in recent years. Two incredible courses. And Jack's two I've never heard anyone talk about without saying they loved them. There's no higher praise than that. The artistry of golf design, and pushing boundaries in the field are extremely important. But ultimately, if the people playing it love it, you've done a great job.

And then there's the irish lads. Christy O'connor has done some fine courses (mount woseley). And some more accessible ones I understand as well. I think maccreddin is paul mcginleys only attempt so far and I thought it was terrific, even if it was too tight for me. And I think moyvalley which I played recently was a Darren Clarke course. I really enjoyed playing it. It wouldn't be at macreddins level, but I'd happily go back.

I'd love to see what padraig harrington would do in course design. It could be anything. It could be completely incredible, or it's possible he could over think it and you'd end up with crystal maze style greens.

slave1

Hacket and O'Connor Jr the cream of the last probably 50yrs

Golfgraffix

I’m biased as we both worked together in Jeff Howes Design but imo Jeff Lynch is the top Irish Architect at the moment.

In the past year he has completed the renovations for Druids Heath and is coming to the completion of Druids Glen soon.

His new holes at Lucan opened last week and are an excellent addition to the course.

Paul Mc Ginley has a few projects on the boil and is an often overlooked designer. He would be a traditionalist in his style but hard to go wrong when he is taking inspiration from Harry Colt.

You then also have Ken Kearney and Ronan Brannigan both very good in their own right.

And of course there is Pat Ruddy, who still dips his toe in Rosses and recently did the Pollen Links short course in Ballyliffin.

There is not too much big work going on in Ireland now but I think you will see Graham Webster make some changes at Ballybunion and maybe another firm at Waterville.

I know of 3 new 18 hole projects are in planning stage, will be interesting to see if they come to be realised.

FixdePitchmark

I love Pat Ruddy courses - and would agree - Loved anything Christy O'Connor did.

thewobbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638968#Comment_119638968

I’ve become less impressed with Pat Ruddy’s courses as I’ve gotten older. I now much prefer older-style courses where the emphasis is on strategy and shape. Pat’s courses tend to require too much power and too much concentration for me. They just beat me up!

I do really like Christy’s Headfort New. It’s a remarkably different course between the forward and (nearly) back tees, and such a pleasant walk. He’d some sort of a hand in Rathsallagh too, which is a layout I adore. I wasn’t so impressed with Mt Wolesley. The land there just isn’t as good I suppose.

FixdePitchmark

I'd love a full list of key guys and courses they did...

willabur

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637764#Comment_119637764

You got a shout out on the OTB Golf Weekly in relation to this very topic. Main point of the conversation was rhat while a big name like Nicklaus is attached to the course the bulk of the work is done by a third party

FixdePitchmark

I think Headfort New is a modern masterpiece.

I loved that Christy was doing something new for Ireland, We had enough bog standard Irish parklands and at least a more adventurous style and variety was there with Christy's stuff...

spacecoyote

I'd imagine @Kevinmarkham or @Ally McIntosh would be able to give a good breakdown of the big names and their courses in Irish Golf Architecture

Ally McIntosh

Depends what you mean by big names? One or two mentioned on this thread could barely classify themselves as a course designer. Darren Clarke is no more a golf course architect than any of you.

I obviously need to start getting myself out there and winning some work.

FixdePitchmark

Ally is there any list of who did what , so we at least try educate ourselves.

Most likely very complex with so many layers of changes over the years....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674440#Comment_119674440

Agreed. You get 'Names' who are paid to put their names to a project but have no real involvement in the nuts and bolts of what is involved in producing or redesigning a course.

Eddie Connaughton is another designer/architect who's name I haven't seen mentioned yet on the thread.

Ally McIntosh

Fix,

Not sure there is a definitive list although it wouldn’t take too long to put one together for many / most Irish courses.

Darren Clarke, Mark O’Meara, Colin Montgomerie, Bernhard Langer: All these courses were designed by European Golf Design (EGD). At the time, EGD’s arrangement with the European Tour meant that most of their courses had a figurehead pro attached for publicity. Some were more interested than others. Some turned up only for project kick-off photos and on opening day. One or two hardly knew their way to the first tee.

Stan Eby designed Carton Monty and Portmarnock Links; Tim Lobb designed Carton O’Meara and Moyvalley.

Not many big-name professional golfers are actually that involved, especially when they tend to have so many other business interests; but it’s a good start to look at those that have their own design business with full time employees and little else going on. Ben Crenshaw, Mike Clayton, Geoff Ogilvy are very involved. Jack Nicklaus also had a proper interest in the discipline.

Fortunately, the world has started to recognise that professional golf course architects (rather than professional golfers) tend to produce the best courses.

El Guapo!

For anyone interested, there was a good episode of the Rick Shiels podcast recently where they spoke to the architect who designed JCB.

It obviously barely touched the surface of what goes into designing a course but was a very interesting discussion all the same. Not something I would've normally paid much attention to but it gave me a new appreciation for course design etc. Worth a listen.

Ally McIntosh

Robin Hiseman (the designer of JCB) is a very good friend. He works for EGD who now - thankfully - have to tie themselves less to pro golfers…

…Hence we can talk about JCB as a Robin Hiseman design rather than everyone believing it belongs to some undeserving pro golfer.

El Guapo!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675056#Comment_119675056

He came across very well on the show. I could've listened to him for hours. And his story about how he got into course design was very good.

In the podcast he did mention that Colin Montgomerie (I think) was very involved in designing a course but that others are little more than a name tied to the course and have no involvement.

tayto lover

How do people rate Ken Kearney who is drawing up a new design for my club?

dan_ep82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675314#Comment_119675314

He redone a few greens and holes in Ardee a couple of years ago (1,2,3,5,8 and 11)

I like what he done for the most part but feel the green complexes have a lot more slopes and undulations compared to the rest so its easy to spot the new holes.

Not a fan of the re design of the green on 3.

FixdePitchmark

Anyone know how much Christy was involved ?

Skyfloater

JCB? I'm drawing a blank here.

dan_ep82

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675731#Comment_119675731

https://www.jcbgolfandcountryclub.com/

UK course

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675731#Comment_119675731

awful name ...but literally on their factory land I think .

Funny idea ...but kinda aligned with their company concept....

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674814#Comment_119674814

Connaughton is a builder, not a designer. For the love of Lord Jesus dont let him touch your course from a design point of view. He's completely out of his element and shouldn't be let do anything other than build

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119676054#Comment_119676054

He has been involved in design or redesigns in plenty of Clubs around the Country.

thewobbler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675314#Comment_119675314

His name has popped up on signs at a few clubs I’ve revisited this year - Malone, Ardglass, Greenore - and I haven’t noted much in the way of change.

maybe he’s only getting underway with each/any but my current guess is that his work on these courses has been in the form of subtle nudges to improve strategy and help with maintenance.

Malone’a greens did feel rather undulating this time around but I sense that is also related to my plummeting skill as a putter lol.

Ally McIntosh

Eddie is an agronomist and designer. He is not a builder.

Just for the sake of clarity, there are two approaches to golf design: The traditional method where the designer details out all drawings and specs for a contractor to build to plan… and the design / shape method where the architect minimises detail design on the drawing board by carrying out much of the design during the build using his own team of shapers.

If someone calls themselves a designer but isn’t doing any of the above work themselves (or at least is capable of doing that work), then they’re taking liberties with the job title.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119676655#Comment_119676655

He hasn’t done anything on Greenore as yet except provide a plan. There were a lot of proposed changes which were voted down.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675464#Comment_119675464

There’s some slope on 3. I four putted it a few weeks ago.

Golfgraffix

Not sure how I missed putting your name in my list Ally. Humble apologies.

I got to play Carne for the 1st time this year. I was blown away, well worth the travel.

whizbang

Druids glen is quoting 'lead designer Peter McEvoy'

But whoever did the renovations to Druids Heath has totally lost my vote.

Druids Glen New 4th:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/woj8flqhjwqx5xs/HOLE%204.MOV?dl=0

billy3sheets

Tom Craddock is associated with 9 courses in Ireland, including my course, St Margaret's.

Here's a link dedicated to architects https://www.1golf.eu/en/golf-courses/by-architect/

Ally McIntosh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119687083#Comment_119687083

Jeff Lynch did the work At Druid’s Heath. What don’t you like about it? I saw it for the first time a few weeks ago and thought it was a solid renovation.

Always disliked the 4th at Druid’s Glen. Disappointed that there wasn’t a way to soften the dogleg.

FixdePitchmark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119687969#Comment_119687969

Class what I was looking for.

Knew Hackett was a legend...but amazing to see the courses listed...

Interesting story , wonder if there is a biography...

CMcsporty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637764#Comment_119637764

Di you know what are they doing at Waterville and who’s involved? Fazio?

Hopefully no more ‘Coastal Management’

Kevinmarkham

There's a book or two out there that list designers within the general text... but there wouldn't be anything current. I listed some in Hooked but by no means all of them as that wasn't my focus at all.

I have got more interested in the designers/architects over the years but usually only so I know which other courses they've done. Christy O'C Jnr is an obvious example. I like Rathsallagh and Esker Hills but don't 'get' Knightsbrook.

Mel Flanagan hasn't been mentioned and I would be a huge fan of his work at Rathcore.

I confess it was a massive disappointment to me when I discovered that Langer didn't have that much to do with Portmarnock Links, and have come to realise - as Ally pointed out - that sometimes it's just about perception and the big name. Sad really.

Surprised at @whizbang 's comment on Druids Heath. I found it to be a significant improvement over what was there before. It's far more playable now and the playing lines are more visible as well as accessible.

As for Hackett - a legend. Simplicity doesn't always work when the land has nothing going for it... but so often it's a better solution than just piling in with the machines as many do. Connemara shines through in that regard. And you can't mention Eddie's name without mentioning Carne.

blue note

The top100 golf courses website has a top 100 architects on it which is quite good. So the Irish guys who made it into the top 100 have a section on them and a list of their courses. I don't think christy O'connor is on it actually.

blue note

I just finished the tom doak book. I'd love to see an updated version from him now. That book is 30 years old, I think the changes in equipment and conditioning probably would change those golf courses dramatically now. And his thoughts on the game must have changed too even if his primary philosophy might not.