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2023 Beep Scheme and BDGP Scheme

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  • 16-09-2022 12:52pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭


    With the BEEP Scheme and the BDGP Scheme been rolled into 1 scheme from next year and next years scheme only open to Bord Bia Approved members, whats the thoughts on going for Bord Bia approval, is it worth the extra hassle and paperwork?

    Personally I was only in the BEEP scheme and not in BDGP so am trying to way up the odds.

    I'll have extra paperwork just for BDGP that I am not familiar with and then additional paperwork for Bord Bia along with the annual inspection. Granted, most of the paperwork for Bord Bia should be in place just for getting the approval etc but a small investment would also be needed for signage, bait traps, foot bath etc for getting approval and then whatever paperwork is needed annually for the inspection.

    Also a question for anyone in BDGP, as a starting point I would need to send samples to the lab to determine how many 4/5 star cows I have in the herd. Do I need to sign up to be a Herd Plus member on ICBF in order to be able to order the test kits?



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 668 ✭✭✭ABitofsense


    One thing to note on it is that for year one 80% of calves born on the farm have to be from by 4/5 star bulls.

    I've done the beep each year but never in bdgb. QA thing is annoying as I don't factory any stock all goes to the mart. Bit of headache for not much benefit



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭893bet


    the bord bia records are the same ones you will need for a department inspection. Forces you to keep on top of them I think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Thekeencyclist


    I wasnt aware of that, so anyone thinking of entering the scheme would need to have been planning for it back at the start of the summer if calving down next spring. I'm not to bad as I got a new bull this spring which is a 5 star and a few ai'd to eby as well so id say id be covered that way. Its just a matter of ensuring I have 50-60% of the cows as 4/5 star.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    Not necessarily only cows, a percentage of females in the herd, including heifers over a year old, will be genomically tested every year



  • Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭Sugarbowl


    Isn’t there going to be some kind of a cap on cow numbers in this new scheme? Like if you had 20 cows this year, you can’t calve 22 next year? Or if you drop down a couple, you can’t go back up?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭SuperTortoise


    This is one scheme i won't be joining, currently in BEEP and it's ok, not a lot out of it but at least it promotes things that are helpfull such as fluke burden and liveweight gain.

    This crap of 4/5 star cows is a work of fiction.

    I improve my herd on what my eye sees, not on what ICBF tells me,

    Far too much emphasis on milk yield in order to get high stars, bulls/cows seemingly randomly dropping stars for no reason, constantly chasing stars not quality animals.

    Some of my best cows are 1 and 2 stars and the calf's they produce would shite down on a lot of 5 stars.

    That's my take on it for what it's worth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    @SuperTortoise you aren't wrong in what you are saying. I have been increasing my numbers in the last few years, so I was able to keep some cows that weren't 4/5 stars and still be within my 60% of the original reference number. But if you aren't allowed keep more cows than your reference number that will be an issue. At the minute I get to keep the replacement heifers I want, but I fear I might have to keep some because of their starts that I wouldn't keep normally & buying in replacements is a non runner as you will never buy as good as you breed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,530 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Interestingly we had a judge here for the Angus herds competition yesterday. He picked out our 1 and 2 star cows as our best ones...



  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Thekeencyclist


    And just on the getting the tester kits for BDGP to determine where the existing herd might stand when it comes to seeing how many 4/5 stars are there already, have i to join Herdplus just to be able to order these?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,067 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    No more than a IHFA classifier would probably score your lower EBI cows higher. Prettier doesn’t always mean better



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  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭dh1985


    No but just because it's written on paper doesn't always mean there better either. Bdgp is in now a good number of years and still alot of anomalies in the scoring. See it with my own and most others would say the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    Any sign of the BDGP payment coming. Of all the schemes it has the most paper work, you'd think they'd try and get farmers paid up for participating after all the effort



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,259 ✭✭✭tanko


    It was paid on December 12th for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,980 ✭✭✭893bet




  • Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    I gotten nothing yet :(

    Got the Beep around the 12th but nothing since. Looks like it could be delayed due to the inspection last month. Pure balls how an inspection delays your payments even if everything is 100%



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Just as a not Bord Bia accreditation is becoming a standard. Increasingly feedlots want cattle from BB herds only as they can slaughter faster if need be.

    As well I say it will become standard for some of the underage bonuses paid by the Keiak/Glanbia scheme and the ABP scheme for Early slaughter bonus

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    The early slaughter bonus will only pay on Dairy bred stock if the focus is on beef breeding. Abp have a requirement of the bull have a beef sub index of greater than €35. This will give the DBI a kick up the backside for the ICBF as calving ease makes up 50% of the index. Abp are also looking to more Genomic testing.

    As I said earlier in the beef tracker thread it would be interesting to see the weekly kill from feedlots. After all its the image of us herding in a field that is used to sell beef, not Larry and his cronies driving up a feed passage herd in a landcruiser



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭Packrat


    On a Dexter group I'm a member of - we were discussing this scheme and nobody's going in because Dexters inevitably lose stars all the time due to lower birth weight and slower growth rate.

    Not enough 5 star bulls and the AI ones gone down to 1 & 2 stars.

    We reckon we'll all fail to complete the requirements of the scheme and be forced to pay back any money.

    ICBF say that they can't make exception for one breed or others like Angus will also want one.

    So we're basically locked out of this one it appears.

    Was this scoring sheet designed with any particular breed/hybrid in mind that ye know of?

    Who designed it and does anyone fully understand it?

    How do they know they have the right scoring across all the different breeds.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    Personally I don’t think the model is right, be it Dexters, Angus, Charolais etc. Having a scheme where a Hibred/Crossbred bull is acceptable once it has 4/5 stars and a PB bull isn’t if has 3 stars is flawed. The stars are still too volatile. To me I’d replace items like X% of star cows with reduced calving intervals, heifers calving 24-30 months, higher wean %,



  • Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭Silverdream


    Problem with the stars is they are too narrow, it gives stars for performance once an animal is on adlib milk, grass and meal. The smaller dexter, Irish Maol and other native breeds out perform these 5 star animals on the marginal land types.

    Where I am a puffy Charolais Weanling will melt once the cold wet westerly weather comes from October onwards till April. That's 6 months of the year that animal has to be supplementary fed, then housed and pampered. The same native breed will still be thriving outside well into the month of December. This is the point the Stars are missing and it needs to be addressed. An animal that can live outside and thrive for several months longer than those 5 star terminal types needs to be recognised for that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,568 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    On Dexter's you have to find a way to come around the system. There is 4-5traditional breeds, straight off there is Kerry and Irish Maol. You needs to find a way that if you are breeding prue breds there is a way the scheme applies.

    Try the Irish hill farmers association explain you case and look for a get around. Contact the Pippa about it. I gaurantee if you work at it there will be a get around. Basically you have to look for a way they will give points for pure bred traditional breeding. Just on that traditionally Dexters, Kerry and IM were dairy not beef breeds

    By the way apply if you are not in you cannot win

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭Packrat


    No point in applying if we're going to fail to satisfy the requirements of the scheme and be forced to pay back the money whilst drawing that bord bia bulkshit on ourselves -> on into cross compliance checks etc.


    Good idea about the INHFA, - who are the Pippa?


    As Sliverdream says, there should be some points or whatever for an animal that can live outside without supplemental feeding until January, I fed my first bale today and most won't see any for another week..

    The main heads in the Dexter Society are toy hobby breeders who don't care about schemes or money only showing cattle.

    They won't help.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



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