Council wanting to Surface Private Road

Nightshad3 · 06-09-2022 12:42pm #1

Hi guys. I'm in a situation where a road that falls in my property (double-checked with my solicitor) is scheduled for surfacing by the council. I received a letter two years ago from local councillor that the area engineer had checked and it was a public road. (that's when I rang the solicitor). I've just had the engineer in question call to my house last week to ask permission to surface. I told him I want that in writing and explained what the solicitor told me.

Anyone have any advice on what I should do? My solicitor just said to ring him if they try and push ahead, but where do I stand if they push on someday I'm not at home, or I cant reach the solicitor by phone?

coylemj · 06-09-2022 4:49pm

Is the issue that you are happy to have the council pay to resurface the road but you're concerned that allowing them to do so might affect your claim to be the owner of same road?

If the council claims that it is now a public road i.e. they have 'taken it in charge' then it begs the question: why did they send an engineer 'to ask permission to surface' - your words?

Nightshad3 · 06-09-2022 5:01pm

This is the exact part that is so confusing! The last time the road was done they stopped where the road became private. When I questioned the engineer on that exact point he went away saying he'll get back to me.

I think the issue is an over-eager councillor trying to get the votes along the road. The rest of the locals think there is an automatic right of way/public road situation but turns out it isn't. Once public money is spent on that part of the road it becomes public.

coylemj · 06-09-2022 6:57pm

Once public money is spent on that part of the road it becomes public.

That's a bit extreme - the council can't acquire ownership of private land by slapping a layer of tarmacadam on it!

Do you want the road surfaced or not? If yes, all you have to do is write a letter to the council, tell them they can resurface it if they like but it's your private property. The fact that an engineer called to you to ask for permission would indicate that they seem to be aware of your ownership. But as you say, the situation is confusing - I can't understand why they would want to resurface a privately owned road.

elperello · 06-09-2022 7:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580409#Comment_119580409

You mention locals, is it the case that they use a private road on your property to access their property?

Do any of them have an alternative access?

Marcusm · 06-09-2022 9:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580935#Comment_119580935

If the council takes responsibility for maintenance (likely to be clear from it resurfacing it) then it becomes a “public road” for Roads Act and Road Traffic Act. That may not impinge on the OP’s ownership but it does affect his right to use/exploit his asset.

Correction, it becomes a public road for RTA but not for Roads Act (which requires a public right of way in addition to maintenance). Inter alia it would mean limitations on parking if it’s narrow and an obligation to have insurance and motor tax on any vehicle parked in it.

cap.in.hand. · 06-09-2022 10:28pm

Usually a contribution is required from householders on a private road towards surfacing,,,that doesn't happen on public roads and it's just availing of grants that are there

ittakestwo · 07-09-2022 2:30am

Is there a public right of way running through your property? You say other people use the road. Is it a private right of way or is it public right of way? Does the road give any access to a public area like a park or beach etc that the public have been using for a long time.

The council would not resurface a road that they did not think was public. That does not mean they think they own the land or bought it. It is just they belive there is a public right of way over it so have an interest to maintain it. Once a road has become public your ownership becomes pretty ilusionary. However you seem to believe it is not public but private. If you belive this and dont want it to become public then you shoukd right to the council telling them they are trespassing if they try to resurface. If you do nothing and allow the council to resurface and maintain the road it will become public by those actions.

Nightshad3 · 07-09-2022 6:55am

The road leads to a strand. There are houses at the end of the road. Their right of way was added to the land registry 5 years ago.

The last time the road (I am a mile from the main road) The council only surfaced to where my road begins, for the exact reason it was a private road.

Also, why would the engineer ask for permission and not explicitly state it was a public right of way they were operating under?

And it's not a case of I seem to believe this. This is the situation as it has been explained to me by my solicitor.

coylemj · 09-09-2022 10:30am

There are houses built on land which is accessible only by a road that you consider to be your private property. That suggests that you sold sites with a right of way across your property. So why would you have a problem if the council wants to resurface the road? Haven't you all but given up on your rights over that strip of land anyway?

ittakestwo · 13-09-2022 3:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582600#Comment_119582600

By the fact your neighbours had to register a ROW means the road is not a public highway.

Perhaps one of the neighbours incorrectly complained to the council about the state of the road believing they are responsible for its upkeep when infact it is you and your neighbourswith ROW's over it. If the council do start to maintain it then it can become public. Would that bother you? They will pay for the up keep of it and if your neighbours already have registered ROW's over it you cant do anything with it like develop it anway.

GNWoodd · 13-09-2022 9:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582600#Comment_119582600

What could be happening here is that the road could be the subject of an application under what is known as a Local Improvement Scheme . This is where a number of affected landowners and or householders have submitted an application to county council to have a NON public road repaired. You should have been a party to this application if the road is on or adjoins your land /house.

The Council doing work on a non public road does not change its status. It does not become public by virtue of the repair .

cap.in.hand. · 13-09-2022 10:22pm

Why can't the OP solicitor ring the council themselves and state their position regarding the road before the scheduled works.. wouldn't that be the logical thing to do as when council engineer contacted OP.

14-09-2022 8:54am

I’ll admit I don’t understand the situation completely, but Im struggling to see why, if there are houses at the end of your road, and others have a right to use it, you object to the council improving it. Are you concerned that the public will then use it to access the strand, can they not do this already?

cap.in.hand. · 14-09-2022 11:13am

The OPs story is indeed confusing as to why the council would schedule the road for resurfacing and then asking him/her for their permission if required to allow it,instead of asking for permission first if required and then to prepare a schedule for resurfacing if acceptable to both parties.

Nightshad3 · 14-09-2022 3:47pm

Thanks for the advice! Looks like they are Working away. @cap.in.hand It just seems so dodgy to me. The engineer repeatedly tells me it's a public road and asks if they can do it. When asked why he's asking it's just so "it's okay with everyone"? I don't really care either way, to be honest. If they are being duplicitous at this point what else are they up to?

The Continental Op · 14-09-2022 3:55pm

Wait any day now there will be a council sign post up for the strand ;-)

Furze99 · 14-09-2022 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119615796#Comment_119615796

Reading between the lines, it would indeed be in the OPs and other householders interests to have the local authority put a nice tarmac surface on their road at public cost. But they don't want the riff raff (i.e. the public) then using same road to access the sea at a strand.

GNWoodd · 14-09-2022 4:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617909#Comment_119617909

Ask the Engineer ( or Council HQ) to give you a copy of the extract from the Councils road schedule showing this road on it .

Schedule only shows the roads that are public .

Nightshad3 · 14-09-2022 4:48pm

GNWoodd - I asked the engineer for the request in writing the first day he called to me. Told me the next time I talked on the phone that he didn't have the time to write a letter. So that's kind of what I'm dealing with.

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2022 4:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617909#Comment_119617909

To be fair to the engineer they might not have been told the full situation. it isn't relevant to them.

The Continental Op · 14-09-2022 5:13pm

One other thought. The council might have money to spend on roads and want to spend it. If they don't spend it then its gone and they probably won't get as much money next year.

cap.in.hand. · 14-09-2022 8:33pm

Could you ask the other householders did they apply for a grant to get it surfaced with tar and did they contribute money towards it as is the usual procedure if it's part of a block Grant for these kind of private roads,you probably wouldn't be approached for a contribution if you actually didn't live along the road anyway

Nightshad3 · 30-09-2022 12:00pm

Ok guys the situation is they just went ahead and surfaced. Guess its not my responsibility now?

Council wanting to Surface Private Road

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