Would this work in Ireland?

Suckit

I saw these stories today and was wondering if they would work here, also if they could afford to implement them. I am just curious, no other reason.

I was thinking that our city trains are full anyway, so I doubt a reduced fare would encourage more to use them. I was also thinking that there may not be enough to use our rail system when travelling around the country, to reduce emissions by a shedload, but then doubted that etc. But I wouldn't know enough either way, hence my posting this. Nationally it could make quite a difference.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-30/germany-s-ultra-cheap-train-ticket-saved-1-8-million-tons-of-co2

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2022/08/lessons-germany-experiment-near-free-rail-travel-9-euro-ticket

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/jul/15/spain-announces-free-rail-journeys-from-september-until-the-end-of-the-year

L1011

There is exceptionally limited capacity on any trains operating at all currently. Counter-flow peak services to Docklands/M3 and Newbridge/GCD (which have to exist to run the busy flow direction ones) and some daytime services; plus the two cross country intercity lines that have very limited services and are already quite cheap. I'd imagine the expanded Cork commuter services might not be up to load yet either but I've no experience of them.

All other trains are basically full.

Girl Geraldine

Unless there is a benefit to IE in doing it, they won't do it.

IE won't want to do it because it will reduce their income significantly, and they will have to go cap in hand to the government to make up the difference.

The government won't want to do it because they will be caught for the extra subsidy to IE. Plus, they will be loosing out on a good chunk of revenue from fuel taxes and motor tax.

And the train only suits a small minority of commuters outside of dublin - those who live within walking distance of a station. And chances are, if it is feasible for someone to use the train they are already doing it.

Anyway, a very large number of passengers travel for free on services already, whether it be free travel passes, business travelers who's trip is being paid for by employer, or the contingent that simply hop on and outright refuse to pay, telling ticket checkers to go fúck themselves and so on, with no conseqences whatsoever.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119553222#Comment_119553222

Irish Rail will, eventually, be changed to a contract funding model rather than farebox + subsidy, just like Luas, Dublin Bus / GAI and other NTA direct bus operators.

In that case, the NTA will entirely control the fares - not IR.

whisky_galore

CIE did something similar back in the 70s iirc, travel anywhere for £3.

Girl Geraldine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556248#Comment_119556248

What do you mean by a contract funding model? How would that work?

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559495#Comment_119559495

IR would be contracted to run the service, the NTA pay them the agreed amount to operate the service. Fares go to the NTA, if they are enough to cover the service, then a profit for the NTA, if not, then the NTA are subsidising the service, IR get paid the same regardless [1]

[1] Of course it is more complicated then this, there would be penalties for services not operated, bonus's, etc.

Luas has been run like this since it was first created.

Girl Geraldine

Well it is well and good doing that for Luas because its run by a private company.

IR is a state company and a monopoly. What would be the point in tendering when you know the result, and they are going to come in with a heft price to run services so they can cover their costs.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560301#Comment_119560301

Because DB (Arriva), NS etc will bid against them. The winning operator would get the passenger rolling stock

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119560301#Comment_119560301

Direct Award contracts though?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556248#Comment_119556248

I am pretty sure that this has already happened, and that IE are no longer retaining the farebox revenue.

The NTA control all fares in any case, with the exception of the cross-border Enterprise fares.

But on the substantive point about whether such a fare reduction would work in Ireland, you're correct. We simply do not have the capacity for it. Most trains are nearly full as it is, and the significant reduction in young adult/student public transport fares has had a significant effect in this regard.

bk

“IR is a state company and a monopoly. What would be the point in tendering when you know the result, and they are going to come in with a heft price to run services so they can cover their costs”

I don’t think it will change, but it could change.

I mean Dublin Bus and Bus Eireann were in exactly the same place, government owned semi-states that use to have a monopoly on their respective routes. But that has changed now, with GoAhead Ireland, a private company operating 10% of former DB and BE routes.

Luas has proven that this operating model can work extremely well on rail, so it isn’t totally unimaginable that certain other rail service’s couldn’t also be contracted out. I think it is unlikely in the short to medium term, but the possibility does exist now.