Fitting a pressure gauge to water pump.

Sam Russell

I have a pumped water supply in my house and I need to fit a pressure gauge so I can set it up properly.

How do I go about it? - I have the gauge with 1/4 inch bsp fitting. What do I need in terms of fittings?

embracingLife

What exactly do you mean by "pumped water supply"? Is there a pump in your house or is the pump external to your house either from a communal water pump etc in the area?

Anyway if you have a pump in your house the following type of pressure gauge is recommended fitted on water pipe as it can be set to a specific pressure level to prevent higher pressure going through the pump and to the different outlets /taps in your house.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/honeywell-home-pressure-reducing-valve-15mm-x-15mm/7978J?gclid=Cj0KCQjwjIKYBhC6ARIsAGEds-KUIiQW-OaasEBw3TtcMgTZyctIylSMfs0MU15HK_g6tkzLWsUOmYUaAv_SEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Alternatively if you want a generic pressure gauge on the pipes to detect the pressure then the gauge would be attached to a T off one of the pipes. You'd fit a standard T fitting onto a pipe and the gauge would go onto the branch off the T.

Sam Russell

OK, I have all the water other than the incoming main pumped by a submersible pump off a water tank in the attic.

The pump has been in place for over 12 years and has worked reasonably well - until recently when it would not turn off. That problem has been solved, but there remains an irritation. There is a 25 litre pressure vessel that should allow the likes of a toilet flush to not cause the pump to run, but the pump was running for any demand - no matter how small. Clearly the pressure vessel was not contributing.

There is a pressure reducing valve very similar to the one you show, but the pressure is after the reduction.

I want a gauge to verify the start and stop pressure for the pump. The pump is a Diver D75 from RVR in Kerry, with an Ecopress pump controller on top - it is no longer stocked. Now, if I knew the pressure for start and stop, I should be able to set the pressure charge to be about 2 psi below the start pressure (but would like a better number if applicable). When installed it worked OK, but that was 12 years ago. Pump delivers enough water, and good pressure.

Thanks for your help.

embracingLife

Ok. Kinda sounds like the pressure vessel is banjacked. It happens a lot.

There's usually a valve on the top part of the vessel, usually got a plastic cover on it, it either unscrews or pulls off, underneath is a valve identical to the valve on a car tyre. You can check the pressure of the vessel by this valve and also pump the vessel if its low, but if vessel is broken its no use to pump it, sometimes water might trickle out of the valve when you push the centre pin part with for example a thin flat headed screw driver etc, but don't push hard or you'll break the valve!

But you'd need a pressure gauge to check the vessel valve, a motor factor would stock these, it's the same as the pressure gauge but got a flexible or rigid valve attached to it to allow to fit onto the vessel valve and then you can check the pressure of the vessel.

Also if you have a car tyre foot pump you can use this to check the pressure of the vessel.

Good luck with it.

Furze99

If you have a pressure vessel / tank to act as a buffer between the pump and demand, then this is normally fitted/ supplied with a pressure valve. So when the pressure in the tank falls to a certain level, it switches the pump on and when after pumping, it's reaches a certain it turns off the pump.

These tanks do fail and/or they need to be re pressurised after time. There's a kind of balloon inside of them that is pre inflated. This either loses air over time or ruptures. There is a procedure to drain the tank and pump with a foot pump but I won't attempt to describe as setups vary. Plumber that deals with wells etc your best bet or just buy a new pressure vessel.

Sam Russell

I have done all that. I pumped up the pressure vessel to 1.5 bar. However I need to know the pressure that pump starts and stps.

Just pressurising the vessel is difficult as the water pressure interferes with the value. Also, it needs to be set to just less than he turn on pressure.

Furze99

https://www.dreamstime.com/expansion-tank-pump-station-blue-colour-pump-booster-pressure-vessel-expansion-tank-pump-station-blue-colour-pump-image189140099

https://www.amazon.com/Boshart-VALVES-Installation-Pressure-pressure/dp/B00TPZUK1U?th=1

Is it this sort of pressure vessel? This is what controls the pump switching on & off in our systems, there's a valve unit on it with an electrical switching assembly. So when pressure in the tank falls, this switches the pump. See second link. In a well set up, the submersible pump could be at a distance and deep down the well, a cable and pipe runs to it. So the tank causes the pump to switch in & out.

If the 'balloon' is ruptured or losing pressure quickly, then this can cause the pump switch in and out very frequently.

Maybe I mis understand but it reads like your issue is that the submersible pump in your tank is running too frequently?

Sam Russell

I think perhaps the problem is being misunderstood, and over complicated.

The pressure vessel might be faulty and that is what I am trying ascertain. The vessel does hold pressure, but might leak. I do not want to over pressurise and burst it. It says it can take 8 bar - but even so.

The preset pressure of the vessel needs to ne about 2 psi below the cut-in pressure of the pump (set by the Ecopress). To do this I need to measure the pressure of this cut in pressure with a pressure gauge.

Now I have the pressure gauge that has a 1/4" BSP thread. What fitting will connect to the current plumbing?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119501366#Comment_119501366

I dunno - maybe you could make a sketch of your setup. This here is a standard enough setup as far as I know: https://www.tricountypumps.com/plumbing-services/frederick-submersible-well-pumps/

The submersible pump delivers water to the pressure vessel. This has a pressure switch that controls the pump operation, according to cut in/ cut out settings.

If the pump is running too frequently, it's your pressure vessel set up that needs attention.

Maybe you have the pressure switch somewhere else on the system. But conventionally it's the pressure tank that controls the pump - it makes sense.

John.G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119501366#Comment_119501366

Don't know if you are sorted or not but you can check the cutin/cut out pressure by measuring the pressure at the air end, measure the pressure when it cuts out then crack open a tap to give a trickle of water and note the pressure when it cuts in.

A few examples from a 25L pressure vessel .If you have a pre pressure of 1.5bar then the pump cut out would need to be (only) 2.7bar to give you 8L of water before the pump will cut back in IF the cut in was 1.5bar, I would think that the cutin/out pressures are or were more likely set to 3.0/3.5bar so a 25L pressure vessel will give 2.78L between these limits, (vessel precharge 3.0bar)

If the pressure vessel was ever capable of refilling a toilet cistern of say 8L capacity then the pressure vessel pre charge pressure & the pump cut in pressure would have to be set to 2.0bar and the pump cut out at 3.5bar.

Anyway as you say, either install the PG, or if you havn't, take the pressures from the air end, as suggested.

Sam Russell

@John G

That is the information I was looking for.

I will try the air pressure method until I can get the pressure gauges fitted. Is there a publication that explains the way the pressure vessel works with a pressure controller like the Ecopress.

If it delivered 5 litres without the pump cutting in, that would be great.

John.G

presscontrol-up-110-230-datasheet.pdf

Found a little info on a "Presscontrol" system which is similar IMO, it comes with 3 different settings, non adjustable, the settings are 1.2/2.5bar, 1.5/3.0bar & 2.2/3.5bar. A 25L pressure vessel/accumulator by my calcs should give respectively, 9.29L, 9.38L & 7.22L without pump cut in.

You might also confirm that the pressure vessel is installed near the pump and before (upstream) of the PRV, also, if available, the setting of the PRV.

It states in the attachment, below that....- R version with adjustable restart pressure between 1.5 and 3 bar

Sam Russell

The Presscontrol unit, I think comes with a logic board but is probably the same otherwise. There are a couple of nonreturn valves, plus a spring operating a diaphragm and the whole thing turns the pump on when pressure is low and off when it is high. The whole system is switched using two reed switches controlled by two magnets. I do not think there is any electronics in the ecopress. The presscontrol unit is designed to do away with the need for a pressure vessel.

I think you are right that the ecopress is available in three (fixed) versions.

The sequence is - water pump, then the ecopress, then the pressure vessel teed off, then a pressure regulator with a pressure gauge on the low side. Unfortunately that pressure gauge is facing the wrong way to be read - it needs an elbow to get it facing so it can be read (well I can use a mirror). It read 1.6 bar when I looked, but is not easy to read as it is inaccessible generally.

I will do a bit more investigation. Thanks for the info so far. I am learning a lot about this type of system.

zg3409

In terms of how to fit to existing plumbing there are lots of different standards. Pipes have a few sizes, typically older joints are "Irish" . Check if pipe is 1/4 inch, 1/2 inch, 3/4 inch etc. Take some photos of pipes or joints you want to tap into, and bring gauge to local plumbing supplier or wholesale and they should give you parts to make a T piece.

Sam Russell

I measured the pipe which is OD 27.74mm. It Tees off to another pipe which is 21.4 mm. I have no idea whether they are imperial or metric.

John.G

You need the pressures before the PRV so can you take take them as suggested, at the air end, note pressure when pump cuts out, and if possible when it cuts back in.

Sam Russell

I cannot read any difference to the air pressure. Maybe it is set too high, so I'll try again.

John.G

If the pump pressure is changing then the only reason that the press vessel pressure isn't is that the diaphragm is hard up against the air end, (with effectively no press vessel effect), to ensure this is not the case then there must be no pressure whatsoever at the water end, pump off etc, then remove the press vessel water end connection and pump the air end to say 2bar and then reduce to 1.5bar, reconnect the water end pipe connection and re power the pump. Before doing any of this press the air end schrader valve needle and ensure no water comes out.

Sam Russell

@John.G

Thanks, I will start from scratch and redo all of it.

whizbang

 The whole system is switched using two reed switches controlled by two magnets.

This is a different system to the pressure controlled system. Its water flow rather than pressure.

With this system, sometimes it works to reduce down the flow to the toilet cistern so the pump doesnt kick in at all, and simply fills slowly with gravity only

Sam Russell

The system kicks in for any waterflow but with the pump turned off the gravity flow is enough to fill toilets, inadequate to wash hands, and useless for a shower.

The pressure vessel is supposed to allow a single toilet flush without the pump activating.

John.G

Any tests Sam.

Sam Russell

Still waiting for parts.

I think by the weekend I may get results, but certainly will try something then anyway.

My washing machine ate its homework last Friday, so had to fix that which is now OK.