What’s your night rate and how much are you using?

hick · 12-08-2022 9:45pm #1

So having just joined the solar and battery brigade a little over 6 weeks ago and still getting my head around a few things but one area I thought might be of use to newbie’s and others is a discussion about when solar is out and you are grid tied how much are you consuming or not in particular when you might have to top up your battery in the leaner winter months. I only recently had my mind changed on moving from my Day Night meter to a Smart meter. So to get the ball rolling

I’m with EI on the Energy Saver 30 which gets me right now a day rate (with Vat) of 21.02c day and 10.38c night. Over the past few weeks I’ve been going through 2-4kW a day. So the hope is to get out of paying no more than 41.52c a day or €12 a month! Though that EI offer runs out in October so on the hunt now

I have a 5.5kW array and a 5kW battery (hope to increase soon). My inverter is set to charge the battery at night.

The house is currently consuming circa 7-20kW a day during the summertime, but as high as 33kW in winter (car charger and heat pump in there too).

Of course the additional battery should get rid of grid during the summer. The key for me will be staying on the cheapest rate I can get in the winter months, that’s where the extra batteries will pay for themselves in a few years.

So what’s your rate right now and how are you planning to keep it at a minimum. Also would you stay off a smart meter as long as you can? Look forward to hearing from you.

curioustony · 13-08-2022 11:26am

My panels face 136° (SE). So as my dinner is cooked my 5.7kWh battery is drained. The level of drainage is proportional to what I have for dinner. My goal minimize the grid consumption. Elimination requires more investment, or change in life-style. I'm not ready for either of those.... yet. The lovely graphic is from the 12th. Beautiful day, too hot for the panels, but sooo clear.

My night rate is 15.6 incl vat, and my night 'boost' rate is 9.16 (2-4 am). The dishwasher and the battery boost happen at this time. As you can see from the graphic that day I drew ~5kWh. In reality this ranges from 0 to 5 kWh. Key for me is that it is not @31.6, day rate.

I don't automate this (though some have -- check out the automation thread) and it can be a bit frustrating if the day is very cloudy (July had a few of those). I could automate, but statistically I think that boosting to 50%, 60% and 90% depending on the time of year works quite well, without adding complexity and a bus factor of one to the system.

I was more careful about trying to only boost the battery to the point that solar took over. The promise of FIT (nothing official yet from my supplier) has helped me relax this a bit.

curioustony · 13-08-2022 11:49am

Oh yeah. I have a smart meter. I would prefer to have a d/n meter. I think with a couple of cheaper hours it is becoming moot: Not as good as d/n but not worth the hassle of trying to change at this point.

munsterfan2 · 13-08-2022 11:50am

Here is my usage since 1st August (12 days), (Bord Gais EV (Rural - Standing charge is high @ €1.23 per day)

Night Boost - 197 kw/h @ .052c = €10.33 Night - 87 kw/h @ .154c = €13.44

Day - 19 kw/h @ .215c = 4.08 Day Peak - 3 kw/h @ .282c = €0.84

Export (FIT) - 38.6kw/h @ ??? = €5.86 ( If FIT = 15c )

138KW/h of the Night Boost and 60 kw/h of the Night Time is for Car Charging

I set the hot water (Heat Pump) to stop from 17:00 to 02:00 so it heats up again after evening showers (post sports kids) at the cheap rate. If solar is predicted to be below 10kw (not sure if that is correct yet) I usually set the battery to charge. Wondering if I should set battery to charge anyway and get the extra FIT payment.

DrPhilG · 15-08-2022 12:34am

I'm with SSE. I went with a 10% discount and €200 credit rather than the 30% discount.

Initially was on 22c day and 11c night. After price hikes I'm on 28c day and 16c night.

In my last 2 month period I used 17 day units which was annoying. My own error in accidentally charging the car at full blast during the day.

In general I should have almost zero day rate use since PV is providing all my daytime use for now, and when that falls away I'll be charging my battery at night rate which will last me through the day.

fuse · 15-08-2022 2:11pm

Currently with Flogas paying something ridiculous like 33c per kWh as a result of multiple price hikes.

Contract ends next week thankfully so I'm currently weighing up who to switch to. For me it boils down to going with Bord Gais flat rate of 20.17C or the smart tariff from SSE - Day 23.24c, Night 17.63c, Peak 24.79.

Due to get solar at end of month (~5kWp with 5kWh battery) so usage will be changing. Running the numbers I still think the flat rate is my best option but fear I may regret not making the most of a night rate...

No EV or heat pump means it's just down to doing washes/dishwashing/battery charging overnight.

I'm not expecting the 5kWh battery to do a whole lot for me during day time - guess I could save it for the Peak times in winter?

What kind of % of a average household daily use would be used in Day/Night/Peak I wonder?

slave1 · 15-08-2022 2:15pm

What kind of % of a average household daily use would be used in Day/Night/Peak I wonder?

Bonkers.ie have that on one of their calculators IIRC

DC999 · 15-08-2022 2:28pm

As others have said here, there's no real incentive to move to smart meter rates with "20.17C or the smart tariff from SSE - Day 23.24c, Night 17.63c, Peak 24.79" for most people. You risk paying ~5c more for peak, and only save ~3c for load shifting to night. Which is a real shame. I believe it's important we 'flatten' the grid usage to reduce carbon creation - as in that peak energy production drops and moves elsewhere across the 24 hours.

So unless there's a PV rate available for a few hours in the middle of the night at a much cheaper rate (and load up on that), the smart meter tariffs are hard to embrace.

And echoing what others are saying here, it's now as hard to pick provider as to tell if I'm on the best healthcare plan. Need to be half ways decent at plugging into excel to cross compare and makes you spend a heap of times to get the best deal. So threads like this help for sure

yankinlk · 15-08-2022 2:48pm

I have a D/N meter - only installed last year just before I got solar in October. My usage is roughly 58% Night and 42% Day. This doesnt include the Solar Self-Usage.

I have a 5KWh battery - so it makes a bit of a difference for my Night Rate in Winter - but it gets used up pretty quick in Nov/Dec/Jan months.

Nelbert · 15-08-2022 3:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119467461#Comment_119467461

Excellent idea on the timing hot water on the heat pump.

I'm newly transferred to electric Ireland energysaver 30% d/n (although I'd to chase them to swap to d/n.....). So it's 23.4c day and 11.1c night rate.

My calcs are that once I'm above 12.5% night usage I'm saving money (although standing charge difference eats in to the savings).

The last few weeks I'm around 20kw per day in usage 25-40% of which is night rate.

In winter I expect the night usage percentage to increase as the heat pump kicks in early in the morning to heat house up... In addition to the idea above about water top up.

I've yet to jump on board with solar as I'll be rebuilding the shed over next 12 months and its roof will pretty much edge to edge solar panel is the plan....

I am tempted to get a DIY battery (from the suggested shops in the the other thread) and potentially load shift completely / as much as possible to night.

If / when an EV joins the household I would see those boost hours as very attractive to charge a battery in the winter as well as an EV as even with charge and discharge losses you'd save a packet.

curioustony · 15-08-2022 4:23pm

@DC999

echoing what others are saying here, it's now as hard to pick provider as to tell if I'm on the best healthcare plan. Need to be half ways decent at plugging into excel to cross compare and makes you spend a heap of times to get the best deal. So threads like this help for sure

If you prefer python to excel try this: github.com/Tonyslogic/tout-compare

There is also a windows installer in the releases section of you don't like python either

Gerry · 15-08-2022 7:58pm

I was on 24hr meter, blindly accepted the smart meter, not sure if I'd ever have had the chance for day/night. on the sse 30% tariff as per dc999s post.

But, as others have pointed out, theres nothing stopping supplier setting a proper low night rate on smart meter tariffs. and theres very little incentive to load shift at all.. since peak isn't much extra.

This is a real shame and I can't get my head around it.

poker--addict · 17-08-2022 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119474328#Comment_119474328

Same bump in price happened me. Can not wait for my contract to end.

My usage is about 50% day 50% night.

graememk · 17-08-2022 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119486960#Comment_119486960

Start looking now of where to move, and have your consumption rates to hand

fuse · 18-08-2022 10:36am

See my post in PV Feed in tariff thread... other utility co. might facilitate an early move by covering the exit fee.

Or cancellations dept of current provider might offer you credit to stay.

banana5kin · 18-08-2022 3:05pm

I am with Energia EV tariff, moved middle of June from EI, D/N meter 27c Day and 8c Night (rounded). Invertor mostly been set to Time of Use mode to take advantage of the cheap rate (due to cloudy days). Been caught out quite a few times and exported way more than I'd like to. Last 2 months use was 12 Day units and 191 Night. Have 7.2KW of battery, 3kw facing SSW and 1.2kw facing ESE.

yankinlk · 18-08-2022 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119489936#Comment_119489936

If thats over 60 days - thats not a lot of units to have used. But I am surprised with 7.5Kwh battery you havent been able to get that closer to zero. I use Self-Use mode with only a 5KW battery - and even with an EDDI boost in the mornings im using less than you per day for night rate.

Are you sure "Time of USe" mode is the best option? DOnt you have to set discharge times rather than let it run mostly automatically with Self-Use mode? Apolgies if i misunderstand the modes...

banana5kin · 18-08-2022 7:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119490000#Comment_119490000

Probably not, but currently I set Time of use to charge between 1am and 9am taking advantage of the cheap rate, after 9 it's down to battery and solar for now. Over 5 days last week I put it in Auto mode and imported 0 (but those were the good days). I have sofar2mqtt set up and I am trying to build some automation by scraping met.ie xml to combine that with some automations in Node Red to predict/best guess/adjust the charging/discharging. It's a learning curve, not had the batteries long so it's a bit of a steep climb alright, I'll get there in the end.

18-08-2022 8:37pm

Energia.

6.9c night rate.

24c day rate.

Unit prices are fixed until January. When I signed up the day rate was a rip off. Now it looks ok 🙄

Day/night meter was worth it's weight in gold Jan/Feb/early March. Moved 90% usage (with the help of batteries) onto nights and saved a nice bit. Since mid March hardly used night units and have been avoiding too many day units thankfully.

Winter is coming though!