If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact [email protected]

Were Irish anti-Russian during WW2


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach

    Russian communists had, for the duration of the war, suspended their campaign of undermining Western democracies. However, prior to that period their equivalent of the foreign office promoted their ideology and after the war end there was a renewed effort to swing public opinion to the Soviet cause. A recent book that I read, Paris After the Liberation 1944-1949 by Antony Beevor, showed it was only through the skill of DeGaulle that France remained non-communist. So, in answer to the OP the state was likely well aware of the subversive effects of the Soviets in underminning Ireland's social stability.

  • Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Mick Tator

    The level of Dail debate has not changed much. What did the Censor do to the poor old Presbyterians in Dunlaoghaire?

    I'm a fan of Beevor but have not read that book yet. The communists had a strong hold in France during and after the War. They were key players in the Resistance, and as they were already semi 'underground' when the war started they had the networks. Importantly, many of the CP members worked in the railways, a critical infrastructure for gaining intelligence (and demolition!). The labour union CGT was very communist up to the 1990's, it's now much more moderate.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,888 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore

    Anything that even vaguely threatened Mother Church would have been looked upon with great suspicion, the burning of the CPI hq was stirred up by RCC hierarchy and the people quite happily did their bidding.

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 88,610 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight

    Look at the attitudes to the Spanish Civil War which was immediately prior to WWII (1936-1939) and who supported each side.

    And Russian invasions of Poland in 1939 and then Finland, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia in 1940.

    Russia was trading with Nazi Germany right up to the kick off in 1941.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4

    Which I do find odd.

    Soviet Russia was the first (& I think only) state to recognize the Irish Republic of 1919 - 1923, establishing some diplomatic links with it, I mean by 1919 the Bolsheviks were well entrenched in power in the main urban centres of control despite the raging civil war, and everyone knew what they were about by that stage, and during the Tan War the workers' councils & committees that were established during strikes & takeovers were named Soviets as a nod to the Bolshevik Revolution/Coup.

  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4

     Wasn't Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia all parts of the Russian Empire in the 18th century, since 1721, almost a century before Ireland was incorporated into the United Kingdom? Isn't it also true that these states were ceded over to the German Empire after the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk was signed, which made them German vassal states, for a few months anyway?

    As for the Spanish Civil War, Ireland (south) was virtually a Catholic Theocracy at that point, under the power of John Charles McQuaid. The Spanish civil war started 14 years after the last Soviet establishment in Ireland fell, showing you how much influence the Church gained in such a short time.

    After the failure to enthrone the Irish Republic proclaimed in 1916 & which issued its declaration of independence in 1919, showing people how Catholic you were was a way to show how British you weren't. And although Protestants were not subjected to the same scale of discrimination that Catholics were in the North, they were still discriminated against never less. For example in 1930 Mrs.  Dunbar-Harrison was recommended for the role as county librarian in county Mayo by the Appointments Commission. But the Bishops & wealthy Catholics on Mayo County Council refused her recommendation saying her "grasp of Irish was inadequate" (in a country where 95% of the people spoke English) & they asked the question "could a Protestant be trusted to hand out books to Catholics?". Dev also through his lot in with the Bishops, and pompously declared the post of county librarian that it "had a propagandist education character" & "as 98% of the population is Catholic, they are justified in insisting on a Catholic librarian.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,774 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4

    Yes, the French Resistance was strongly pro-Communist, very brave, but also very small along with the other western & northern resistance compared to the resistance in southern & eastern Europe. Also, I think people get confused a lot about communist, anarchist & socialist resistance during WW2, just because they were pro-communist did not mean they were automatically pro-Stalin, the Yugoslav resistance under Tito is a good example. There were a lot of complicated divisions in the socialist movements in Europe, they were not monolithic, the divisions go right back to the Russian revolutions & the German Spartacist uprising, along with other rebellions in Europe. The third Russian Revolution is almost wiped out of the history books as it does not fit the simple narrative "all communists = evil demons". There were huge uprisings & revolts against the Bolsheviks led by the Party of Left Socialist-Revolutionaries, the Green peasant army, the Socialist Revolutionary Party, and a number of anti-Bolshevik militias in other countries in the former Russian Empire. For example, in eastern Ukraine, the anarchist Makhnovshchina society was formed and was pretty impressive so the Bolsheviks had to invade & destroy it, they didn't want it to become an example for others to follow. Lenin quickly started his propaganda against anyone who disagreed with him, in a telegram he sent he said in response to these uprisings

    " Comrades! The kulak uprising in your five districts must be crushed without pity. The interests of the whole revolution demand such actions, for the final struggle with the kulaks has now begun. You must make an example of these people. (1) Hang (I mean hang publicly, so that people see it) at least 100 kulaks, rich bastards, and known bloodsuckers. (2) Publish their names. (3) Seize all their grain. (4) Single out the hostages per my instructions in yesterday's telegram. Do all this so that for miles around people see it all, understand it, tremble, and tell themselves that we are killing the bloodthirsty kulaks and that we will continue to do so. Reply saying you have received and carried out these instructions. Yours, Lenin. P.S. Find tougher people"

    Lenin was just as brutal, if not more brutal than Stalin. And Russians were very aware of the totalitarianism of the Bolsheviks. I'm not sure if people in Ireland understood the complexities of the different socialist movements at the time but I would say Irish people were probably very anti-Russian government, not anti-Russian people during WW2.