Start school at 4 years old or 5 years old

CPTM

We're leaning towards starting our little one in school after she turns 5. She has an early March birthday, so she'd be 5 and a half basically. I just wanted to hear what opinions parents had on starting their kids at primary school at age 4 vs age 5. She is in creche childcare at the moment.

Would cost of childcare be the main reason to start them at age 4, or are there other reasons parents go with 4 years old instead of waiting that extra year?

At the moment childcare cost isn't an issue for us so we're just trying to learn if there are other considerations.

Deeec

Dont start them until the Sept after they turn 5. I started by daughter at 4 and I always regretted it. There is no advantage to being the youngest in the class. Also for out of school activities eg GAA she was always in a different age group to her school friends which always caused problems. She will be finishing school at just gone 17 which will be way too young.

My son January baby - wont be starting school until he is 5 and 8 months. That extra year matures them so much. Dont listen to people who will tell you that she is ready for school. At 4 they are still only a baby really. Wait is my advice.

Trigger Happy

The later they start the better IMO. I was the youngest in my class (a long time ago) and did my leaving cert at 16.

I was always the smallest in the class and that bit less mature than my classmates. I strongly believe that my grades thru school would have been better had I started school later. The brain been better developed etc.

So our started our child in school later and have not regretted it for a moment.

Tombo2001

All the common wisdom is the later the better; having said that in my experience, I havent seen kids losing out big time by being the youngest in the class. Its not like the situation described by Trigger Happy - if your child started now aged 4 in September, they would be 18.5 yrs doing the leaving cert. Hold them back a year and they will be 19.5yrs.

The only obvious and clearcut disadvantage I can see is that if they are in the younger cohort - then they will not be in the same age group in sports clubs as the other kids in their class. Might seem like a small thing, but for a lot of kids the thing that keeps them doing sports is that their school pals are there.

March is literally in my view the borderline month for this type of decision, could do either way

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384381#Comment_119384381

Does that include TY?

Primary school is 8 yrs and secondary is 6, including TY which is fairly standard these days.

Start at 4, do 14 years of school - thats Leaving Cert age 18?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119384484#Comment_119384484

It doesnt include transition year. Transition year is not compulsary and where we live there is lots of competition for places so she may not get to do it.

Pawwed Rig

We were in the same boat as you with a March birthday but ended up sending him at 4and a half. Still not certain if it was entirely the correct decision but he is close to the top of his class academically although can tend to be down the pecking order socially. He has no interest in team sports so that it not really an issue for us. My reasoning for sending him at that age was that I thought he would be bored waiting a year and would be miles ahead of the rest of the class .

If I could wind back the clock I would definitely try for an Autumn baby rather than March

Furze99

A year makes no difference these days at all as education for most goes well into the 20s.

In fact, if you have the inclination for it, there's plenty of parents who help their own children to learn 'at home' for primary school years and who don't enter the formal education system till first year at second level, or at transition year or even straight to PLC and third level. We've been down all routes.

JDD

We sent our first daughter at 4 years and 9 months, and our second daughter at 4 years and 11 months. My observations are as follows:

• If either of them had been boys, I would have waited another year, even with the 4 and 11 month old.
• Our first daughter was really at the cusp of what I would think was the youngest age I would send a child into junior infants. She was a very mature and smart child and had already done the ECCE course twice over two years in her creche. Doing it a third time would have driven her crazy. She coped well and is in the younger end of her class, but not at all the youngest.
• I considered holding the 4 and 11 month old back for a year because she was not as academically inclined. That said I just thought that turning six only six weeks into Junior Infants was a bit old and she was well capable.
• Our youngest, a boy, is starting school in September at 5 and six months. Now, he is autistic but even without that I wouldn't have sent him until now. 4 and half is too young even for the most mature of children, in my opinion.
• A neighbour sent their daughter at 4 and 2 months. It was FAR too early. While the child was academically very smart, and the learning was no bother to her, she wasn't mature enough. She cried every day going in until Christmas.

So basically it depends on your child, but really I think 4 and half is too young for any child to go into JI.

Hope that helps!

SuperBowserWorld

Start them later rather than earlier.

People live much longer lives now, education goes on into their 20s.

Enough time to be rushing around and into quarter and mid life crisis when they're older.

What is this life if, full of care,

We have no time to stand and stare.

No time to stand beneath the boughs

And stare as long as sheep or cows.

No time to see, when woods we pass,

Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass.

No time to see, in broad daylight,

Streams full of stars, like skies at night.

No time to turn at Beauty's glance,

And watch her feet, how they can dance.

No time to wait till her mouth can

Enrich that smile her eyes began.

A poor life this if, full of care,

We have no time to stand and stare.

Princess Calla

We mulled over this one too and went with 5 and a half rather than 4 and a half.

We also have a few primary school teachers in our circle and they all said after turning 5...but they do have a vested interest too.

Going by birthdays they are definitely in the oldest grouping of the class and there's children a full year younger than them.

I don't regret the decision, not yet anyway.

A good chunk of the class gets homework (senior infants) that takes around 40 mins to do....extra reading/writing/maths we have never had to do homework bar the weekly reading video that the whole class has to do.

I live close to the school and have seen on occasion junior infants "caught short" and being brought into the bushes behind the school, both before and after school. After school is one thing as I know children can hold their wee if not comfortable, but in the morning they should be able to get from home to school without an emergency....it's a bog standard suburban school with very strict catchment area rules so no one should be coming far. So toileting is another consideration.

Our main concern was teenage years we wanted them to be the eldest rather than youngest of peer group. Wanted them to legally be able to go drinking when peers were going etc plus hopefully have a bit of cop on and maturity.

shesty

5.

Have an early April baby myself, started JI at 5.5 last year.

The youngest child in her class turned 5 in March of JI.The rest all turned 6.Literally almost the entire class.

With the two years of ECCE you will find many kids are 5 and over going in.While your child may be fine, if you find they are in a room full of kids turning 6 while they turn 5, that is hard on them.

Academic ability is not really a question because they will all start at the same point and learn the same curriculum.Social and emotional readines, and surviving in the yard - that is where the extra year will help them.

CPTM

Sounds like we're correct about the age 5 idea then. We'll go with the childcare until 5 and start them in primary school after that.

Can I just ask what the process is for holding a child back a year in primary school? Why don't a lot of parents start kids at 4 years old in junior infants and then hold them back a year, basically saving nearly 10k in childcare at creche?

I'm supposing the teacher/principle has to agree to hold them back?

shesty

Schools won't do it anymore.It is very hard to get a child held back a year, it just isn't an option.

Pawwed Rig

It is a stigma for the child aswell. Where I have seen it in real life the child tended to move to a different school

AyeGer

Definitely 5, I was the youngest in my class and it certainly wasn’t an advantage.

CPTM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119386988#Comment_119386988

Somebody told me this evening that a lot of schools don't allow it past a certain point (say first class) because of bullying. That it's policy the child has to leave the school and find somewhere else.

Pissy Missy

I don't have kids but I was 4 when I started school and I dont remember it causing any issues, in fact, I'm glad I got to finish school younger compared to my peers rather than prolong it. Obviously if it appears the child may not my ready or mature enough, then I would possibly wait.

AnnieinDundrum

Planning to repeat a year seems odd, you rely on the school agreeing, the school having space and the kid not minding that their mates are still together without them. Too many variables that are outside your control.

another year in preschool won’t be a problem if it’s a decent preschool. Maybe switch to an Irish speaking preschool to mix it up?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387480#Comment_119387480

I was 5 starting school and spent all of my primary school days bored out of my head. My work was always finished way before others and most of my time was spent staring into space waiting for the slower portion of the class to finish while being screamed at if I so much as spoke to anyone else (different times ). I always regretted not being started earlier as the consequence was that I didn't have to try for the first 8 years of schooling and then didn't know how to try in secondary so ended up underachieving. It was only in my 30s when I went back to do another degree that I achieved any level of academic potential but still the LC results came back to haunt me on a number of occasions.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387722#Comment_119387722

A good many children like that who are quicker than the rest, regardless of age. And is one of the issues of the 'education system' - it has to cater for all, inc the lowest common denominator. It's why streaming by ability is/was used though not so PC now. If you weren't in primary school, you could have followed your own interests at your own pace but sin scéal eile.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119388060#Comment_119388060

True that but that is what ultimately lead me to the decision to send my son to school at 4 and a half. He was already reading books before starting school and the creche he was going to advised us that he was ready although I still feared that his maturity wasn't up to it. 4 years later he is still one of the tops of his class in all academics. He struggled a bit dealing with some of the rougher boys but seems to have his own group that he is reasonably happy in.

We will encourage transition year or send him abroad for language course after junior cert which will have him 18 doing his leaving which seems like a good enough age.

Someone mentioned alcohol as one of the considerations!!! I can't say that it was one of the things that entered our mind. Only in Ireland 🤣

shesty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387722#Comment_119387722

But you were probably mostly surrounded by 4 year olds, who were not as able as you because they were younger.Maybe some very young 4 year olds too.

The age profile of a lot of JI classes is not the same these days, due to the 2 ECCE years.

That being said, I do think Jan/Feb babies are tricky to make the decision for.For me, March would be very borderline. I also have a parent who is a primary teacher (retired 3 years ago) and would have always said 5 is the better age to start.Especially for boys.

salmocab

My wife works in childcare so talks to lots of parents and she says she never once met a parent who regretted waiting the year but met a few that said with hindsight they should have waited. I don’t think it’s so much a learning issue as a social one, pal of mine sent his when he was four and he was still four when he was going to 6 year old birthday party’s, he said he was quite babyish compared to the other kids, naturally. Everyone thinks their kid is smart enough to start when they are 4 and that’s because they are, the kids aren’t an outlier kids are just smart, however socially the extra year can be a bonus for them.

yaknowski

Depends on the child, if capable physically, mentally, socially or all, would have no problem sending in at 4.

I was the youngest in my year having been born in August so started at 1 month past 4. Finished a good leaving cert at 16, 2 months off 17 but always felt that I could have benefitted from an extra year. Physically no different so was grand in terms of sports etc.

Our youngest was 4 in April and accepted into school for this Sept, but holding off until Sept 23. Montessori said she seems ready but am of the opinion that the extra year will stand to her if the class ranges from 4.5-5.5 in terms of social interaction, ability to concentrate, maturity etc.

In the Nordics, think it's around 6/7 the children start school.

Pissy Missy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119387722#Comment_119387722

It sounds like earlier could have def suited you better so. I felt primary school didn't prepare me for secondary school. The work load was a doddle in primary and then getting to secondary you're given a million subjects and a load of work, I was not prepared. Like yourself, I did much better academically in my 30s, though I think it was more down to maturity, self awareness and most importantly motivation.

notAMember

It depends on the school and the make up of the class. Mine were march birthdays, and I sent them at 4.5. They were not youngest or smallest in the classes. In each of their classes there is a child who is miles older than the others, one who started when almost six, and unfortunately they stick out like a sore thumb, don't fit in with their own peers, lash out in boredom. That wouldn't happen if the balance was different of course.

And while I've occasionally seen children being held back a year, although discouraged, I've never ever seen a child jumping ahead a year. once that boat is missed, it's gone.

Gauge it with the other parents in the preschool if you can.

Neyite

We had a May baby so he started the September after his 5th birthday and his small class all turn the same age the same year. His two best friends that he made in JI have their birthdays a month either side of him so it's worked out well.

A friend's lad was still only 16 when his friends from school started turning 18 so from that point of view when they are all able to get into clubs and pubs and he wasn't was tricky. In the end he got a fake ID so could go out with his friends.

Apiarist

5, definitely.

Milly33

We just started our little one at school a few weeks ago. She is in the middle turning 5 the end of December and have to say she was so ready.. I think you know yourself in fairness with them if they are ready or not. She went to pre-school, a small class for 2 years and she was defo fairly bored of it by the end of the second year needed something more.. Flying it now, she is in a Irish school (and nope we are not Irish speakers) and so far so good

dnkydress

I’d say whatever the age you feel is ready is most important.

If you can help it though, send your daughter to school the same age as her peers. Personally I started primary school when I was 5 and I can’t lie, I feel a bit of resentment. Especially considering I did TY (and missed half of it thanks to COVID), messed up my leaving cert and now by the time I’ll repeat I’ll be 20. As a result, I’ve pretty much sacrificed my college social life/normal college experiences in order to get my dream course. This is something I’ve looked forward to for years, since I’ve had a difficult time socially throughout secondary school (maybe even because I was more mature than my peers) and have graduated with no friends on top of it. Now I have to watch my classmates have the time of their lives in college, which is something I’ll never get to experience. I’ve pretty much sealed my fate remaining as a hermit for the rest of my life, considering college and maybe secondary is mostly where you make friends for life.

If I had started school at a normal age a gap year wouldn’t have been such a negative, stressful, upsetting and life changing issue. I’ve spent all summer crying and I don’t think I’ll ever fully get over having a chance of a social life robbed away from me because it’s going to affect me for the rest of my life. Maybe my case is an extreme worst case scenario but I think you should take it into account.

yourdeadwright

My daughter started at 4 ,turning 5 in December ,

She was in preschool for 2 years , so she is more than ready and so far is doing great she absolutely loves it ,

At the same time my 2 & half year old son has started pre-school & is struggling so far, He just doenslt have a grasp on rules , he doesn't i understand why he can't do what he wants , So all kids are different ,

SwimClub

With school start age at least you get a choice who your kids are grouped with, with sports you don't, it is well-researched that professional athletes all have birthdays earlier in the year. The small advantage of even half a year at a very young age is enough that the birthdays of professional athletes are dominated by kids that are born first half of the season, even the first quarter.

It might be because the kids are selected at an early stage as 'good' and given more coaching etc. First impressions last and all that and people find it hard to shake off labels, so giving your kid the best start relative to their peers in their class makes sense IMO. The same effect probably happens across the board not just in sport - being seen as a good student by the teacher, being in the cool gang, etc. etc. Of course there are always exceptions (even in professional sports) but the effect seems surprisingly strong.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-athletes-birthdays-affect-who-goes-pro-and-who-becomes-a-star/

"Of course, children old for their cohort don’t have better genes or more talent. Instead, “the relative age effect is almost certainly related to differences in rates of biological and psychological maturation,” said Joe Baker, a professor at York University in Toronto who researches the relative age effect. “Those who are relatively older appear stronger, faster, etc., but they’re really just older and therefore more advanced in their maturation.”

Kids are picked as being in the better group when really they are just in the older group, and these effects can last a lifetime.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608232#Comment_119608232

You need to adjust your mindset.

For one no one really asks your age in college.

You will also have a mixed bag of people.....those who took a year out, those that failed a year, mature students etc.

If you join any of the clubs or societies you'll be mixing with , 1st years to post grads so age not an issue.

So your social life is not over , you will find your tribe once you adjust your attitude.

griffin100

We sent out first girl to school at 4 years and 5 months. She was academically well capable but she struggled physically a bit with the rough and tumble and emotionally she was just not ready. That might sound weird but it’s hard to explain. We should have waited another year. That said she didn’t suffer long term and is off to UCD next week at 18.5 years of age (we made sure she did TY).

We sent children no.s 2-4 all at 5 and we had a much better experience with them. I’d hesitate about sending a child who wasn’t very close to being 5 (but thankfully that’s a stage of my life that’s over :))

JDD

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608232#Comment_119608232

I met my best mates in college.

I had friends in school. My closer friends went off to other colleges, some repeated, and some came to the same college as me. I met up with my school friends in college the odd time in the first few months of first year, but actually met my best mates when I joined various societies in college and in my college year. It didn't matter a hoot if you were 18 or 21. Nearly all of them had no friends from school with them in college either, or if they did I very rarely met them. My college mates are still my closest friends today and I had an absolute ball with them for the four years.

Forget social difficulties in school and the slight age gap. College is a chance to totally reinvent yourself, if that's what you want. I was a shy nerdy kid with shy nerdy friends all the way through secondary school. I really came out of my shell at university.

ANNNND, you will be 21 when you do your J1. Winner all round. You should be shaking your parents hands.