Civil Service Pension Pre 95 v Post 95

Alonzo Mosley

Hi guys,

Let's say there are 2 civil servants. One started in 1994 and the other in 1997. Person A is pre 95 and the other, Person B is post 95.

Working with very rough figures let's say both retire after 40 years service with both om the 5th point of the HEO scale. For arguments sake lets say Person A retires on €50,000 and B on €53,000. Person A receives a pension of €25,000 and B gets €25,000 (€12,000 from the OAP + pension of €13000). Both now have equal pensions.

Scenario 1 : Government increase the OAP payments by €10 pw. Does this mean person B's pension is now worth €10 a week more as this increase does not affect person A ?

Scenario 2: After Government pay talks civil servants are awarded a 2% pay increase over 2 years. Person A will get a 2% increase on their €25,000 bringing their pension to €25,500. Person B receives a 2% pay increase only on €13,000 bringing their pension to €13,260. If the OAP pension was untouched then person B now has a pension of €25,260.

Am I correct in saying after people retire there may be a big difference in both pensions over the years post retirement ?

JosTep

From my understanding- if the state pension goes up, the post 95 will have their retirement pension reduced by a similar amount and won’t benefit overall.

if their is an increase in the pay rounds - both pensions are calculated in the same way - the increase is applied on the overall pension of both and Person B will get the increase before the state pension is calculated and is then paid that less the state pension- so if their pensions are the same when they start - they will be equivalent all the way through.

The one thing is - if both finished on the same point - Person B should end up on a different amount as Post 95 staff are paid slightly higher than those who are pre 95 and the Pension is calculated on their final pay (if they have spent three years or more in the grade) of 40/80 if they have full service- therefore their pension and lump sums will be different

BrianD3

My understanding is that the calculation for post 95, pre single scheme people is 1/200th of pensionable pay up to 3.33 times the old age pension plus 1/80th for the remainder of pensionable pay per year of service. So the formula does take account of changes in salary and the old age pension.

E.g. you are post 95, paid 50,000 and have 40 years service and the COAP is 12,000

((40/200) x (3.33 x 12000)) + ((40/80) x (50000-(3.33 x 12000)))

Occupational pension = 7992 + 5020 = 13012

COAP = 12000

Total = 25012

Now plug in figures with an increased COAP or increased salary and see what you get.

The supplementary pension might be relevant here too. I think it means that a post 95 person must receive at least the same total pension as his pre 95 equivalent. But if through a quirk of the system or COAP rules, the post 95er receives a bigger total pension than the pre 95er, there is no supplementary pension for the pre 95er.

You also have to remember - there are two sets of scales.

One set of Pre '95 scales and a second set of Post '95 scales.

So even if both finish on the same point of the scale, they will be different.

The post 95 scales are higher than the pre '95 scales to compensate for higher PRSI rates.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119309542#Comment_119309542

Is the higher remuneration for post 95ers definitely pensionable remuneration?

My understanding is that the main reason for higher salary scales for post 95 civil servants is because of increased superannuation contributions rather than increased PRSI. Post 95ers pay more PRSI but get more social insurance benefits. Post 95ers also pay approx 5% more in superannuation and have salaries which are 20/19ths of a pre 95er i.e. are approx 5% higher.

Public servants had a similar change in PRSI in 1995 but there don't seem to be pre and post 1995 payscales for public servants. I assume that this is because there isn't a difference in superannuation contributions for pre 95ers and post 95ers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310323#Comment_119310323

I honestly don't know about the public service post and pre 95.

I know that the higher scale for post 95 CS basically was enough to cover the extra for the class A PRSI contribution.

Post 95 contracts no longer had the guarantee of a "job until they were 65" and it meant they would be entitled to social welfare benefits.

Pre 95's paid modified PRSI but don't any have any entitlement to social welfare benefits or COAP.

BrianD3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310345#Comment_119310345

My point was that pre 95 civil servants pay considerably less superannuation. No personal contribution, just the widows and orphans whereas post 95ers pay both.

It is more complex than attributing the higher salaries for post 95ers to them paying more PRSI (while getting social insurance benefits for that PRSI) On several occasions I have heard pre 95ers complaining about this but failing to mention that the post 95ers also pay more superannuation.

doc22

Pre 95er can also get both work and state pension together(in addition) if they have the correct prsi classes/self employment or PAYE employment post/along with/pre Public service

JosTep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119309262#Comment_119309262

If the COAP goes up the Occupational Pension goes down

Using your example above

((40/200) x (3.333333 x 12000)) + ((40/80) x (50000-(3.3333333 x 12000)))

Occupational pension = 8000 + 5000 = 13000

COAP = 12000

Total = 25000

Now if you change the COAP

COAP = 13,000

((40/200) x (3.333333 x 13000)) + ((40/80) x (50000-(3.333333 x 13000)))

Occupational pension = 8666.67 + 3333.33 = 12000

COAP = 13000

Total = €25,000

If the COAP goes to €14,000

((40/200) x (3.333333 x 14000)) + ((40/80) x (50000-(3.333333 x 14000)))

Occupational pension = 9333.33 + 1666.67 = 11000

COAP = 14000

Total = €25,000

Therefore there is no difference and no supplementary pension

JosTep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119310323#Comment_119310323

The final salary is what is pensionable.

Also Public Jobs generally carry the caveat on competitions

New entrants will be appointed on the first point of the scale in line with government policy. Different terms and conditions may apply if immediately before appointment you are a currently serving civil/public servant.