pocket holes - are they necessary

ellejay

hello

I plan on making an outdoor sofa from wood

4 x 4 for legs and 4 x 2 for frame with 1x1 for slats.

The plans I'm roughly following are American and call for pocket holes.

So my question is, are pocket holes just for a nicer look / finish or are they an integral part of the build.

I don't have equipment to make pocket holes so I'm hoping I can build without.

Thanks in advance

edited to add link

https://learn.kregtool.com/plans/slatted-outdoor-sofa/

awec

They aren't integral, it's just an aesthetic thing so you don't see the fixings.

The Continental Op

Looking at those plans they have overdone the pocket holes (but what would you expect on kregtool.com) a lot aren't needed and probably make the structure weaker. Some make sense but not that many. As an example joining the legs to the base you can go through from the inside of the seat frame and the back uprights joined to the base doesn't look that strong done with pocket holes, you could screw nail from the inside of the seat frame.

ellejay

That's great thank you both for your replies.

It's a huge relief not to have to do pocket holes.

Could you recommend wood glue or will any wood glue do.

The Continental Op

I can't say about glue as I hardly use it. What I would say is choose your fastenings (screws) carefully. Left outside and being in on view wood surfaces they are going to rust an stain so you might like to use stainless steel or more tradition brass screws where they are visible. You can even make a feature of the screws by using brass screws with brass surface washers (check you get the right size washers for the screws).

With brass screws which are normally slot headed you really need to pilot hole every screw and what I normally do is drive a steel screw in first then remove it before putting in the much softer brass screw, so it does make a bit of job of it as well as adding to the cost with the brass, but can look good.

GalwayMan74

Pocket holes with glue will give a much tighter joint and overall finish.

generic jigs can be bought cheaply .

ellejay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119139863#Comment_119139863

I was thinking about those little round washers but didn't know what they were called.

would decking screws be an idea?

Thanks for your advice it's very helpful.

ellejay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119139934#Comment_119139934

I'll have to leave pocket holes for a future project.

I don't have the equipment and haven't researched it enough.

ellejay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119139863#Comment_119139863

I just googled screws! I'm lost and don't know what ones to get!

Would you have a suggestion please.

Needs to be long enough to go through the 2 x 4 frame into the 4 x 4 leg

The Continental Op

You need more than one type. Looking again at the cost of brass screws (I'm still using up ones I bought at carboot sales in the UK decades ago) you can forget that idea :-(

No harm in overdoing it a little bit on the main frame with minumum of 100mm screws but I'd use 120-150mm, screwed in predrilled holes from the longer sections into the end grain of the shorter ones. This is where you need to be accurate and make that frame perfectly square. If you are not using a Kreg jig then many of the screws will be going from the face of the timber through to end grain so 5 x 100mm or 120mm would be a good size for that. Others will say you don't need to but I'd predrill the face timber to avoid splits and make lining up easier.

Your 4x4 legs can be screwed from inside the frame so the same size screws can be used. The slats can go on with 4 x 60-80mm screws. The trickest bit is the back which even with a kreg jig I think is a week point. You can skew screw (angle) from the inside into the back up rights but I'd like to have something that goes all the way through from the back and I might use 150mm screws deeply counter sunk so they go a good way into the base.

My wife always complains that my excuse for any job is I haven't got the right size screws or that I need a trip into town for every job I do to get screws but you can never have enough screws :-)

ellejay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119140542#Comment_119140542

Thanks so much for your post it's really helpful.

I over simplified the project in my head and kind of wish I didn't start it but I've the timber now so just to get the last few bits like the screws.

The Continental Op

One thing you'll find really useful particularly if you are going to be doing anything like this again is a right angled clamp like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Housolution-90%C2%B0Corner-Aluminum-Woodworking-Adjustable/dp/B07K14HFCF/ . Amongst I make up aviary panels which are 6 foot x 3 foot timber frames with wire mesh on them. One of those clamps revolutionised the process and made getting them square just so much easier.

ellejay

that's a great tip, thanks a million

rob316

I built bunk beds using pocket holes and I was surprised how strong and tight the fixing was with fairly light screws. Definitely my go to method for any future furniture diy jobs.

The Continental Op

I think of them being strong enough provided there is no weight/force on the same side as the screws because under those conditions the tiny bit of timber holding the screws gives way.