PCC Issues?

galwaylad1980

Played Junior Scratch Cup on Sunday in horrible conditions.

36 holes of stroke play with 54 players playing R1.

In R1 only a handful of guys broke 80 and in R2 only two did (par 70).

Over the two rounds there were only 4 rounds where players played to their h/c... PCC for the day was zero.

Have noticed another couple of weekends recently with poor conditions and relatively poor scoring and PCC was again zero.

Last time I saw it anything other than zero was back in March on a Sunday where 40 points won and maybe 16/17 scores of 36 points or better on the day and PCC was 1.

Has anyone else noticed anything similar at their course recently?

kieran.

Our course has never had a PCC other than 0.

Previously the CCS for our open day would regularly be -3

IAmTitleist

Before the new handicap system our standard scratch would regularly go to +1.

In the 2 years since it's probably went to 1 no more than a handful of times.

blue note

Conditions seem to be factored in even less often since the new system has come in. I don't know why clubs aren't doing it.

We've all played on days where 35 points wins it and other days where a couple dozen people come in with 36 or better. In reality on a really tough day 30 points could be a very good score. And on the easiest of days 36 points could be only good. So a difference of over 6 shots on a comparable quality round.

But for your score differential, 36 points will give the same one regardless of what the conditions were. For the clubs that do use it, it might swing it by 1 shot on a competition day.

dan_ep82

I've only seen pcc once and it was last year. Played slieve russell in a gale yesterday, genuinely tough conditions and no pcc adjustments.

blue note

It wasn't that different with the old system though. From one week to the next the average score could go down a half a dozen shots and at most you'd have an adjustment of 2 shots.

It reminds me of injury time in the gaa. The ref would give 1-3 minutes no matter what. If there was absolutely no stoppage in a half you'd have a minute. If a fella had died during a half three minutes. Otherwise 2.

galwaylad1980

Yeah pre-WHS our CSS would regularly be 35 points and the odd time 34 points.

When WHS came in PCC has been 1, 2 and 3 on occasion but it's just in recent weeks it has not moved one bit, regardless of conditions on the day, winning scores in the 40s and bucket loads of 36s or better, or winning score barely 36 many more scores closer to 30 than 36 (I know 36 points isn't some magic score that everything should based on but it's a good guide).

I agree with blue note above, not all 36points are equal so if the PCC is broken/not turned on, a world class 36 on a day when hurricane Charlie is blowing is treated the same as a 36 on a pet day when everyone else is shooting the lights out.

Anyway, this and what Dan has just posted leads me to believe there's some issue with PCC at the moment.

galwaylad1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116739#Comment_119116739

For sure, but at least in the GAA if three lads died in a half the ref wouldn't blow it up without adding even a second 🤣

fungie

I've seen several pcc's of 3 & 2. It must be very course depending.

Rikand

With The pcc calculation, it doesn't take gross scores into consideration and instead. If there are a percentage of players scoring 34-36 points, we'll say 15-20% of cat1 and cat2 golfers, then there will be no PCC adjustment. If there is less than 10% in 34-36 & 15% in 32-34 points, then it might be a PCC of 1.

Scratch cups are tricky because everyone is looking at the gross scores, but it's very possible that despite few people breaking 80, there was still a lot of lads having 34 or 35 points because they're 82 included a 10 on the 5th. It's the nett differential that makes all the difference and because most people are playing to higher handicaps than they were 2 years ago, it's much more likely the % of players hitting near their 34 points is greater because people are playing off handicaps that are higher than ever they were.

The PCC calcaulation has never been revealed and those figures are just guesses but it's likely something like that which is why PCC happens or doesn't happen. It tries to gauge the detected number of scores of 36 points based on the entry of the field and comparing that to how many people actually hit 36.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116739#Comment_119116739

lol

🤣

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116806#Comment_119116806

is it an automatic calculation Rikand or does it require manual override?

looks like auto from your post?

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116823#Comment_119116823

It's auto. There's no factoring of weather at all. Just scores.

fungie

Scores and weather are pretty correlated though.

galwaylad1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116806#Comment_119116806

Thanks Rikland,

That makes sense about the difference between Scratch Cup (gross scores including some whoppers on a bad day) and what it would've been converted to stableford points. I get that the PCC doesn't actually care about what the weather is it just looks at scores but I think fungie is spot on, sh&te weather usually means sh&te scores... unless you're the priest in Caddyshack of course!

For the above Scratch Cup example, 50 scores returned for R1, 6 scored 34 points or better so 12%. 7 scores 32-33 points so 14%, so pretty close to your figures above to maybe even hit PCC of 1.

For R2 there wasn't as much appetite to brave the weather again so only 40 lads went out and 37 returned scores. 4 had 34 points or better 11% and 3 scores 32-33 points so just 8%.

All h/c indexes between 3.2 and 8.5 so all Cat1/2 golfers.

Anyway thanks for the insight above and will be interesting to see how the rest of the summer goes and if the PCC moves off zero again. If they did reveal what the PCC calculation actually is it would take away the mystery but for now we'll just have to wait and see.