Public Sector Pensions - Help !

runningbuddy

Hi all

Are all public sector pensions half of your annual salary after 40 years service? I am just checking mine (I am generally useless at this stuff) and it I am only 25 years service so obviously have a long way to go ! It states I receive a lump sum and a non integrated pension of €13,560 per annum, which works out at less than 20% of my annual salary. What is a non integrated pension?? I assumed (wrongly? Perhaps) that all PS pensions were half of annual salary - cheers

Henry Ford III

Ask the scheme admin. and look at AVCs for the shortfall.

Xander10

I would have thought its half annual salary based on 40 years service. SO if you only had, say, 20 years service, it would be half of half, i.e. 25% of annual salary

The figure you have is based 25 years service and will increase with each years additional service

runningbuddy

That is what I thought Xander. I will absolutely have 40 years and the rest (if I live that long of course!)

Thanks Henryford - not a bit left for AVCs unfortunately

Mav11

25 years service which means you probably joined after 1995? If so you should also be entitled to OAP in addition to your CS pension, which is now adjusted to reflect this.

gipi

If you started in the public service after 1995, you are paying A class PRSI, so will be eligible for the State Pension and the PS pension. This is the integrated pension model. The 2 pensions together would be roughly half of your salary after 40 years. The calculator you looked at can only work out the PS pension amount, which is the non-integrated portion

Your HR or Superannuation section should have more information on how the integrated pension scheme works.

Treppen

I'm teacher so wondering how the heck you get to look at your pension particulars online?

For us it seems you have to ring the Department of Education Pensions after the fourth howl of a white wolf on the 3rd Wednesday of every month. Then apply by parchment, then wait between 2 days and 2 years for a reply, which will inevitably be incorrect anyway.

runningbuddy

Thanks - before 1995. I assumed it was 50% of my salary and then the state pension at 68 (?). Therefore, 50% of my salary plus the state pension. However, it looks like it is the integrated model

Mav11

Pre 1995? In that case you should not be entitled to the state pension only the occupational pension, unless you were in some superannuation scheme in a state or semi state body. Your HR dept is best placed to explain this.

runningbuddy

So no state pension and 50% of salary pre 1995.

Treppen - I hear you. I was send something after weeks of asking and I really cannot figure it out at all

So, PS employees after 1995 pay PRSI, get the state pension and it is basically "topped up" by the PS Pension?

Mav11

No, all PS employees pay PRSI albeit different classes pre / post 1995. Also effectively, it is your occupational PS pension that is reduced by amounts received through the state pension. Not vice versa.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104529#Comment_119104529

Also effectively, the same difference to the OP.

Mav11

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104574#Comment_119104574

?? not sure what you mean by this post?

covidcustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104423#Comment_119104423

Hi running buddy, what year did you actually join do you mind me asking, because if you only have 25 years service then you joined in 1997, not pre 1995.

The outcome is going to be the same by the way, your full pension, based on full PRSI and 40 years service will be 50% of your final pensionable salary, it's where it comes from that will be different.

runningbuddy

Thanks covid customer - I started just before 1995. 40 years are up in 2035 😀

The paperwork I received from HR was - after 40 years, I will receive approx. €13,560 per annum. I will also receive the state pension - giving a total of approx. €253.30 per week. That would be a combined salary of €26,731.6 per annum. This is on retirement and after 40 years service. I assumed I would receive half of my salary plus the state pension which would be approx. €39K per annum. 

covidcustomer

Hi runningbuddy,

They're treating you as if you are post 1995 paying a Class A PRSI stamp, so you need to check that out firstly.

If you paid a Class A PRSI stamp then this is how it is calculated based on a 50k final pensionable salary:

Integrated pension:

Annual State Contributory Pension today's rate is 253.30 weekly, annually it's 13,171.60 X 3.333333 = 43,905.33/200X40 = 8,781.07

50,000 <43,905.33> = 6,094.67/80X40= 3,047.33 + 8,781.07 = 11,828.40 (That's the occupational pension).

Pension entitlement is 25k, shortfall is 13,171.60, the annual rate of the State Contributory pension.

Add the 3 altogether.

8,781.07

3047.33

13,171.60

TOTAL - 25k

If you are pre 1995 and did not pay a Class A PRSI stamp then you do not have entitlement to the State Pension, the pension calculation is very simple:

Non integrated assuming 50k final pensionable salary = 25k

50,000/80X40 = 25k

Just to add here that can't get over 50% of your final pensionable salary for 40 years because that is the maximum.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104423#Comment_119104423

Nobody in the PS receives 50% of final salary PLUS the State Pension.

(technically, it is possible, in a job that has fast accrual pension)

Geuze

@runningbuddy

if you started pre April 1995, then first thing to check is are you paying PRSI class A or class D?

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119104399#Comment_119104399

I never heard of any online DES facility to check pensions.

You can work it out yourself.

You know the key dates of when you starting working, paying superannuation, etc.

Treppen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107840#Comment_119107840

If only it were so straightforward Geuze, I undertook random daily/weekly subbing hours for years. I only started to keep all my payslips after 2012 so before that for 4 years I've no personal record.

Just out of interest though . Let's say in 2013 I paid €600 into department pension scheme... How does that translate at the other end when it comes to retirement? Is it hours I worked that year.... Or € amount I put in?

Geuze

Euro amount contributed is not relevant.

Years of service is relevant, that's why you need to know dates, weeks, etc.

JohnGonne1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119107756#Comment_119107756

Hi, just an additional question for this v knowledgable community.

Post-1995 scenario - 49yo employee who has currently 17.5 years service+ potentially added service years (for qualifications). What happens if they decide to retire from the PS early, say at 55. They won't have full 40 years service understandably, but would be to good to confirm that they would be able to access the occupational part of their pension (such as it is) at that age. My understanding is that you can retire post-50.

FYI it's for Mrs Gonne - stressful job (which one isn't..), and she's beginning to feel the pace a little, so we are just looking at options. I'm private sector, will prob have to keep working til 65, but have no background to understand her situation.

Thanks, JG

covidcustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119115968#Comment_119115968

Hi John, you would need to look at the retirement plan specific to your wife's area (Education/Nursing) for example, if it references a "minimum retirement age", then that means it is the age at which you can claim your pension benefits.

pemtca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116694#Comment_119116694

You can also apply to retire under the 'cost neutral early retirement scheme' from age 50 or 55 depending on scheme, you can access benefits but they will be actuarially reduced to reflect the early retirement age

JohnGonne1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119116694#Comment_119116694

Thanks all, one additional question, in relation to the above situation, has anyone seen a situation where Mrs G could make PRSA contributions to her own personal PRSA via employer payroll?

In essence, getting tax relief at source on the contribution every month - she has an old PRSA from her pre PS employment, there's v little in it, but she might have €100-€200 left over each month after all expenses - cost of PS AVC's (buying back years) is just too high, wouldn't have that kind of cash, and this would be a way of saving to help when she retires.

I do this to my PRSA, and it works well,but then it's Private Sector, so I'm just wondering if anyone has ever seen this work in practice, or has done this?

Thanks, JG

Geuze

Typically, the only AVC broker that has the ability to put payments through the PS employer payroll is Cornmarket broker.

Otherwise, pay into AVC from bank account, tell Revenue, and get tax relief that way.

JohnGonne1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119121131#Comment_119121131

Thanks for that. I thought there might be a way to get deducted at source, rather than wait for the Revenue to get it back, but sounds like not the case

Geuze

If you submit the AVC cert to Revenue, you can get the tax credits adjusted, so you get tax relief month by month, rather than waiting to do tax return.