Slackers

Bobtheman

Do you have teachers who don't really teach or who just do the bare minimum?

I note in our school that laziness seems to be starting at a young age.

Before it usually didn't take root for 20 years.

I suppose it depends on the subject and school and management?

Bobtheman

We have a history teacher who just solely uses the book and uses every opportunity to go outside.

LunaIsMyUsername

Try to look at it from the perspective of a teacher qualified in the last few years, it took me practically 10 years to get qualified. PLC course after school in my subject, 4 years of an undergrad, then a teaching postgrad and another 2 year masters + CPD. My wages a much less then teachers who qualified before me and less than any other job that requires this level of education and training. Im paying into 2 separate pensions, one of which is for a spouse and child - im single, childless and in my mid thirties so unlikely to ever happen for me but im forced to pay into this 'pension' anyway as there's no option to opt out. When I do retire I can't claim it back & it goes back to the government, more of my wages go into this pension fund than my own. I can't afford to rent or buy a house.

Then there's the other mess that is contracts, going from school to school, getting a contract and having to interview numerous times for your own job. The lack of basic working rights for subs & now the difficulty in claiming social welfare when they don't get paid for holidays. Then the media bashing and shaming of teachers just for being teachers.

This would wear down anyone in any profession. The more undervalued teachers feel, the less of themselves they're going to be able to give to the job. You can't pay highly qualified professionals crap wages, take even more money off them with made up taxes and pensions, mess them around, make their jobs insecure, force them to jump through hoops and compete with each other just to get a job and then complain when they're not working hard enough. Why bother working hard!

gaiscioch

There are slackers in every single profession, as most of us will acknowledge. In particular where barriers to entry are strong there are people doing the bare minimum and still making a decent living because, well, they got that basic qualification 10/20/30 years ago.

Some of these people can cost you a lot, be it the qualified plumber who messes up your house plumbing because he handed the job to an apprentice without checking his work, or the solicitor who messes up a whole range of legal issues, or the medical doctor who fails to spot an issue. Teaching is no different with its incompetents. In particular, I see a notable number who were stupid enough to join for the holidays in their twenties, realise they don't actually like students and that they cannot actually teach and ultimately that they are too lazy to do the work. The last being the determining factor of all else.

But, they might be good at sitting around the staffroom bitching about all and sundry and playing politics, and in yet another school post they could be very good about waffling about the latest pedagogical, eh, innovation (i.e. buzzwords!) to the teachers who can actually teach without those buzzwords. Hey presto - they're climbing up the school management pole (and maybe even creeping into the wider ETB etc management, go bhfóire Dia orainn) before you can say "final salary determines your pension"!

They've zero passion for teaching and for helping change worlds and futures, and are simply there for school politics and nurturing factionalism in the staff to eliminate opponents. They're good at interviews, and they work harder at passing interviews than they've ever worked at anything in the classroom. They go ballistic if they don't get the job and work at being a Fukushima cell in the staffroom trying to undermine the principal and anybody else who refuses to give them yet another school post, so toxicity is the quotidian result of their sense of entitlement failing to be fulfilled. By mid-career slacking off is one of their lesser offences, but it all starts with the slacking off.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063378#Comment_119063378

Thats a really terrible attitude to be honest.

Everyone gets taxed to the hilt. I work in a public sector role myself and the taxes would make your eyes water. Doesn't mean I feel like I can slack off in work - even more so in a vocational role like teaching.

LunaIsMyUsername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119065901#Comment_119065901

Its not a terrible attitude, its the reality and everyone gets taxed, if you read my post again the tax issue was nestled in amongst all the other issues new teachers face, in addition, im not just talking about tax but the issue of new teachers being forced to pay into two pensions, one of which has no benefit to them and they can never claim that money back so its an additional tax that you don't have to pay, the idea that teaching is a vocational role is used a good enough reason to continuously make teachers jump through hoops, cut their wages, higher their taxes and increase their work load. The same happened with the nursing profession a few years ago and we ended up with a serious staffing issue with hospitals unable to cope. The education system is going to go the very same way if we don't start treating teachers like the educated professionals they are, especially subs who keep the schools running and ensured schools and classes were able to stay open during the pandemic.

With that said, there's slackers in every job going so by singling out teachers you've either got a grudge to bare due to your own past negative experiences with school and you're projecting that onto present day teachers starting out in their careers who did nothing to you, you're a begudger who hates to see anyone reach their dreams & progress in their careers - sure we all know how misery loves company, a troll or just generally ignorant to issues effecting people outside of your own little bubble and echo chamber.

I swear that teacher bashers won't be happy until we run out of teachers to employ, then you really will have something to complain about when there's no one to teach your children but retired, old school teachers - the ones that made you hate school in the first place.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119063378#Comment_119063378

You have many valid points. But I think you get back widows and orphans if you retire without having been married or had kids.

In fact if you could avoid both - you would be very happy!

Bobtheman

To be fair it's hard to keep passion going after 20/30 years. If you teach in middle class school you see parents and kids milking you for points. Not really into your subject just the points.

If you teach in a disadvantaged school you get gross indifference from kids and parents. Plus out and out brats.

You have bullshit curriculums and bullshit promotions.

So it's hard for people not to get cynical eventually.

But the vast majority of teachers do their best. Perhaps they cut corners the older they get as it's the only way to cope. Kids same age. You get older.

However I see more and more young teachers slacking straight off. Perhaps it is due to poor contracts and poor pay?

I think low salaries are a real problem for Irish people in their 20s. For every profession.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119066026#Comment_119066026

The child and spouse payment is ridiculous, I definitely agree with you there - however it's been there absolutely years and is not a new tax at all. I'd completely back it being removed but it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone going into the role as they should know it's there well in advance of receiving their first payslip for the job.

By the way I'm not sure who you are aiming the 'you' at in the second paragraph re singling out teachers but if it's me, I didn't start this thread and said nothing of the sort, I was just replying to your note about taxes.

spurious

I didn't get the Spouse's and Children's contributions back. I think under the older scheme (Widows and Orphans) you could.

As a big old gayer, (at the time having a spouse was not allowed) it was like going to Spain on your holliers and being made take out insurance for skiing in Austria, year after year

gaiscioch

"I didn't get the Spouse's and Children's contributions back."

Has any single person ever legally challenged that deduction?

spurious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074697#Comment_119074697

I don't think there was any legal challenge, but I asked the Union and was told that in the change from Widows and Orphans to Spouses and Children, the possibility of claiming it back went. The newer scheme allowed for children of second marriages etc. which was a plus. I don't know how many people claimed it back each year, I suppose there would be figures somewhere for that.

**edit Found this on the DCU site, presume it applies to all:

Are my contributions refunded if I remain unmarried throughout the time that the Scheme applies to me?

Yes (less an appropriate deduction for income tax) if you are a member of the Old Scheme. There is no refund of contributions under the New Scheme. 

Icsics

I see very young teachers get promoted very quickly & then sit back when they get the P or DP gig

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119065901#Comment_119065901

I was with you until you called the profession a 'vocation'. It's not a vocation. It's a job.

Treppen

I think the whole 'vocation' thing was to put it on a par with becoming a priest or a nun.

Bobtheman

To be fair teachers always had a social side unfortunately in the more deprived schools it's almost all we do

Bobtheman

Wellness etc

Bananaleaf

The vocation thing bothers me because it's used as a stick to beat us with any time we ask for improved working conditions.

Not an NQT myself but it is absolutely shocking that they are paid less than us. Shocking. Medical staff are cancelling procedures because of the very same thing at the moment, yet you'd barely know it's happening. Maybe that's just because it immediately and directly affects less of the population than it would if teachers went out on Monday. But even jusr discuss it and almost every pitchfork in Ireland starts getting sharpened.

You really have to want to teach to be in thr job, so I see why the comparison is made, but it is a total cod and a scam

Bobtheman

The dual pay scales would be eliminated or given a definite time scale to eliminate if we went on strike but neither NQTs or old timers seemed inclined.

I have 4 years left. I don't expect it anytime soon