Michael Collins was not a great leader

Charrychar

Collins never won us independence, all the Anglo Irish treaty gained was 26 county independence from the United Kingdom while still remaining part of the British empire, there was no guarantee of any independence it was simply the bare luck of future events that made Britain let 26 counties of Ireland be free. It was around 20 years after Collins death when the 26 counties of Ireland actually gained independence

Britain used the age old tactics of divide and conquer to end the war of independence, they gave some of the big players like Michael Collins big positions of power and turned them against the majority of the IRA to fight their war for them. The vast majority of the IRA were completely against the treaty. Collins took guns and advice from the British and fought the war against the IRA himself.

Another thing is that he was responsible for the deaths of many innocent people. His favorite targets were off duty police officers, Irish men just doing their job trying to earn a living. Collins was against freedom of the press, he used to send the boys round to attack any media outlets who talked bad about the IRA.

_NAGDEFY

Nice trolling.

Charrychar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038966#Comment_119038966

Trolling about what? Do you dispute anything I said in the thread? All facts.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038966#Comment_119038966

Is trolling and being an eejit the same...

_NAGDEFY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119038983#Comment_119038983

Why Collins, he was the Minister for Finance. Dev was the President of the Republic. The leader. You have 6 posts. The trolling is poor fare.

Gusser09

Some think he was a terrorist.

A national hero like Adams, Sands, McGuinness and Co.

Charrychar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039003#Comment_119039003

As I said made quite clear in the OP, Collins along with a few others sided with the British and took guns from the British and used them to fight the IRA. The vast majority of the IRA thought the treaty was a joke and recognized the divide and conquer tactics being used.

The old British tactic of divide and conquer. Freedom for the 26 counties only came in the late 1930s by chance.

_NAGDEFY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039040#Comment_119039040

Do you think the argument is news? We covered it in inter cert/junior cert history. Only at this stage most of us can bring a bit of nuance to the events of that period. And put them in the context of their time. Stating everything in a Black and White manner is a bit juvenile, if you're not trolling.

I have mixed opinions on Collins, Griffith, Dev, Brugha, Lynch, Aitken etc. But an opening post like yours wouldn't cut it in a junior cert debate.

_NAGDEFY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039040#Comment_119039040

And your so called facts are all wrong. The 26 counties became a Republic in 1949 under the Costello coalition government. Not the 1930s.

Collins fought the civil war himself you say. You do know the Treaty was passed by 64 votes to 57. He wasn't on his own. Ever hear of Kevin O'Higgins and the 77? You're all over the shop.

Charrychar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039064#Comment_119039064

Didn’t cover anywhere near it. Where do they go on about all the innocent victims of the IRA in school? Or how about the Brutality of Collins who was responsible for the deaths of many innocent people and spent most of him time targeting off duty Irishmen just doing their job keeping law and order in the police service.

_NAGDEFY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119039082#Comment_119039082

Ah now your showing your Blueshirt colours. Many see those great RIC men as lackeys of the crown.

Yes it was all covered in secondary school. James McDonnell, the RIC widower with 6 children at Soloheadbeg, every bit of it.

If you were paying attention you would have heard how Irish peaceable efforts at repeal of the Union were thwarted in the 1840s. How Home Rule was denied from 1886 to 1916 and the 'Orange' card played leaving little alternative but to fight, and fight ruthlessly.

Goodnight.

Ten of Swords

Not a Current Affair, thread closed

Try the History forum