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Tenant over-holding

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  • 18-04-2022 9:32am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 13


    Hi, just looking for some advice here. Our tenant hasn't paid the rent since December, and despite emails and phone calls to resolve the situation we had to go down the route of the RTB process. 30 days notice for breach, 30 days termination notice etc which expired last week. I know the tenant hasn't vacated. We haven't been able to do an inspection. So no idea of the state of the house, although the front door locks have been changed and the glass pane smashed ( with timber covering it ).

    Obviously, very concerned as I've heard some horror stories about tenants not moving and the slow process within RTB.

    Any opinions or advice greatly appreciated.



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭sam t smith


    Sickening. No advice but I wish you luck getting your property back in good condition in a timely manner. Not looking good as things stand.

    Post edited by sam t smith on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭DubCount


    OP - looks like you've been stung.

    The chances are your tenant is a pro at working the system. I'd get a solicitor on board to manage the process for you from here. Any issues with written notices etc. could set you back a lot of time. I'd get a solicitor to make sure there are no mistakes.

    Good luck. Its shameful that our government supports theft and property damage in this way. Take a loaf of bread from Tesco without paying and you'll be done for shoplifting. Squat in someone's property for months without paying, and there is a whole legal system to protect you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7 AntiLord


    What about landlords who constantly use the loopholes to finish part 4 early do they can put up rent. 10 years of dealing with that as a tenant. No sympathy for bad or non rent payong tenants, but the market and law is definitely designed around the land lord.



  • Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    OP...since you have observed damage to the property, and since the locks are changed, you may be able to enter the property.


    You are specifically allowed to do this in the event of an emergency or to determine who is living in the property.

    It could well be by that the original tenants have left and someone is squatting.


    Call the RTB, and consider a solicitor.


    In my mind and since we pay an annual fee to the rtb, they should have some level of liability in the event that tenants take advantage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭DFB-D




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    OP, Hope they leave.

    I know two separate cases ongoing at the moment where tenants havent paid rent in 4 years and the landlords are still trying to get them out so they can sell. One of them even had restructure the mortgage on his own house that he lives in.

    As someone said above, hire a professional to help you through it. And even then the tenants will have a whole army of charities and even councils helping them to keep posession of your property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,504 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    No it isn't, the law is overtly pro tenant in this country



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,363 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    See the bait before you bite, the clue is in the name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Donnylynch


    Update

    RTB - emailed 3 days ago and no reply.

    called and after 30 minutes spoke to disputes consultant.

    His advice was to complete a web form - dispute for overholding and they would contact the tenant.

    all communications from me should be via registered post - that’s if I communicate with tenant.

    no eta on how long this process takes.

    I’m contacting a solicitor today. Get the ball rolling.

    ‘it’s worth noting that the tenant is claiming social welfare rent allowance and yet not paying me the landlord.

    probably not going to help my situation if I report her, as she wouldn’t have the means to move out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    Im going to estimate between 2 and 4 years if they dig in.

    And it sounds like they are digging in.

    But you are doing the right thing. Get professionals to do everything for your because a word spelled wrong can even put you back to square one, such is the bias against you from the powers that be.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,468 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    That’s aloud of nonsense. How is designed around the landlord ? If it was around the landlord surely he’d be able to evict a non paying tenant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭DubCount


    I have heard of this before - its not uncommon. The tenant is pocketing the social welfare contributions to rent. She's robbing the state as well as you. Free accommodation and extra money from the social to live on, until its time to move on to the next victim.

    Its best not to dwell on how bad the system is - just go through the process and buy a bottle of nice wine to open when she finally has to leave.



  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


    Have you actually seen or spoken with the tenant? Are you sure they haven't kicked the bucket?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,869 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Pay the tenant to leave.

    It sucks, but its the only you'll get the property back this year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Jaysus_1984


    No advice...hope you get your property back sometime! I don't think you will get any real help from the authorities, the country's laws are very anti-landlord! Talk to a solicitor, and prepare for the long haul.

    When you finally get your house back, either lease it to an MNC or sell and move in with your life! Hopefully the day will come when there are no small landlords left and the government will actually have to solve the problem instead of siding with garbage tenants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Jaysus_1984


    Have you actually seen or spoken with the tenant? Are you sure they haven't kicked the bucket?


    Ah, dont raise OP's hopes - if only! Although that's probably the only way OP can get their property back quickly, the "proper" process will take 2-4 years probably!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Donnylynch


    Just a positive update here.

    They have upped and left. :)

    The place is in a state but I don't care. Just happy they are gone. The neighbors are over the moon too. Said it's been an absolute nightmare!

    I've had the locks changed and will most likely sell up. I did follow the RTB process and they communicated with the tenants, so this must have helped. I also got legal advice ( as per recommendation in the thread above ) and they said it's a torturous and frustrating process. So I'm one of the lucky ones.

    Appreciate the advice all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Well done, good outcome for you and the neighbours, empty it, paint it and get it on the market as fast as you can. It will slow down over the summer but pick up again in September



  • Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭Icantthinkof1


    Why would it slow down over the summer?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    It just always does. Slows down in November. Picks up around April or May. Slows down around June for the summer. Then picks up around september/october. Im sure there is a reason for that pattern. Maybe people go on holidays and just give up selling or looking.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,404 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Great you got your property back but still shocking you had missed rent and damaged property- people who point out this is like stealing with no consequences are spot on. Here we have a crap tenant destroying the market for the vast majority and one less property now available for the good honest tenants that do actually exist. I would not take a HAP tenant in a million years, the OP proves why. Country is full of this underclass of leeches unfortunately



  • Registered Users Posts: 631 ✭✭✭MakersMark


    Super glad it worked out for you.


    Thank God you didn't follow some of the frankly stupid advice offered.

    Imagine you had paid these deadbeats cash to leave!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,211 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    People who are selling don't want the house on the market whilst they are on holiday. Buyers tend to go to the beach rather than viewings. House sales depend on numerous people such as solicitors, surveyors and agents mortgage brokers etc to go through. Any one of them on holidays means the transaction stops. traditionally the market is at its busiest in the Spring with another peak in the Autumn.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,293 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Steal a loaf of bread without paying and you will be done for theft.

    Get your loaves of bread delivered by the breadman and then refuse to pay the invoice at the end of the month -> you won't be done for theft


    The tenants aren't stealing. They just aren't paying you the rent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,655 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Great news. Now that they're gone, report the to social welfare fro defrauding the state.


    House near me was over held for 9 months without any rent. They even kept sheep in the house when they weren't out mowing the lawn.

    Owner got it back, spent 10k on getting the house livable and then sold it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭DubCount



    Mr. Trump - I know you are stirring the pot here.

    Taking something (goods or services) without the intention to pay for it, is theft.

    Getting a delivery of bread from the breadman, with no intention of paying the invoice, is theft. Getting your house painted without any intention to pay the painter, is theft. Renting a property with no intention of paying the rent, is theft as well. Its taking money which rightfully belongs to the landlord - theft.

    This is not a business trading in good faith that runs into financial problems and leaves some bad debts (there are laws about reckless trading which is incurring debts knowing it is unlikely they will be paid). This is someone taking something they have no intention of ever paying for. This should be the subject of criminal charges, and should not get the support of the Irish state.



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Most rental contracts are payment in advance whereas entering a 10 day, 30 day or 60+ day credit agreement with the bread man or local hardware store isn’t comparable.

    Renting is cash on delivery. If you’re getting furniture delivered to your house C.O.D. and you don’t have the money as agreed when they arrive, furniture company will load furniture back up and take it away. If you don’t let them take their goods back off your driveway, that is theft. The same principle should apply to rent too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,293 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Hi DubCount. I think it is you that is stirring the pot here with your misinformation

    It is not theft. Theft is defined under Section 4 of the Criminal Justice Act 2001. There are other offences you could possibly argue (perhaps difficult to prove) but theft is not one of them.

    You agreed to let them into your house. That consent means it is not theft.


    If I am wrong, feel free to point me ANY examples of an overholding tenant being done for theft due to their overholding. Just one will do. Thanks.

    Perhaps, if you can't find any, it might just be that overholding is extremely rare? Either that or you are wrong. Which is it? I don't think it's that rare.



  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Take pictures of everything. Any damage missing items. Put a newspaper in the pictures to date stamp it. Keep receipts for everything. Go through the Rtb process incase your tenant says you stole her things and that she was on holiday when you entered the house and changed the locks. Be prepared for everything. She can go the Rtb anytime.

    You could go after your x tenant but the likelihood of you getting anything is slim. Definitely inform Social Welfare of non payment of rent and that there was a possibility of the tenant keeping the rent. Delighted you got your house back.



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