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dying and dead standards

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  • 11-04-2022 11:32am
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭


    partly due to a comment here i saw recently, and partly as i'd been mulling it over anyway, i was talking to derek humphries about upgrading the aksiums on my winter bike, and he warned me that soon i won't be able to get off the peg replacements for them (traditional QR, 6 bolt disc wheels). so i may invest in a set soon.

    are there any other standard components which are on their way out and which will become harder to get? the component shortage is not going to help either (with more supply chain hiccups on the way i believe)



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Peterx


    QR anything, rim brakes in general, 9 speed chains, 10 speed chains, possibly 11 speed chains.

    Vendor support for older software versions, such as 10 speed Di2.

    It's astounding how quickly some stuff becomes "old tech" - on a slight tangent, if you are happy to ride old tech you can pick up a top of the line race bike for smallish money.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think a lot of e-bikes are being sold with 9 speed systems so i suspect the chains there will hang around for a while?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,945 ✭✭✭cletus


    I bought an eight speed chain recently with zero issues, I'd imagine spurious/aftermarket companies will stay making consumables for "older" tech for a while yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    The upgrade threadmill has permeated every facet of our lives lately. Before it was just the desktop computer that went obsolete every couple of years now it's everything



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    Shimano themselves are still manufacturing 6 & 7 speed components, square taper bottom brackets, QR hubs, down tube shifters etc.And that's before you get into any third parties making those components.


    I think magicbastarder's issue is slightly different - QR + disc, (along with 15mm + disc on road bikes) was just an one of the the unsuccessful detours some of the industry took when it was trying to figure out a standard for axles on disc braked bikes before settling on 12mm T/A. So the "QR & disc" market wasn't that large

    I have a bike with 15mm TA on front and QR on the back and its a PITA for wheels though DT Swiss hubs with all their adaptors have solved that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,734 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    Entirely predictable, surprised and disappointed in equal measure with your purchase 🙂.

    I remember walking into Worldwide Cycles maybe 4 years ago and Ray had a 105 light blue equilibrium for sale for 999; I had a BTW ready to go but a wise friend* warned me of the probable obsolescence of the frame/wheels

    *He may feature earlier in story



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i suspect you'll still be able to get wheels for years to come, just not off-the-peg ones. derek suggested a pair of open pro rims married to hubs which i forget the model of.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,284 ✭✭✭Mercian Pro


    He does his winter wheels with either Shimano or Quanta hubs. The latter have cartridge bearings that are easily replaced if needed whereas the Shimano parts can be difficult to source according to the man himself. Weightwise, I was surprised they were fairly similar to my Ksyrium Elite "good" wheels.



  • Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭Whatwicklow


    Take a look at the mtb world, it's a mess now with wheels

    135 qr

    142 TA

    Boost 148

    Qr100

    100 10/12/15/20mm TA

    Boost 110

    😭


    My full sus is boost

    My hardtail is bolt through front 135mm qr rearT

    The cx is qr front and 130mm rear disk

    And the road bike is qr rim brakes


    20 years of spares and all nearly useless 😭



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,838 ✭✭✭fat bloke


    I'd be far far more wary of electronic groupset obsolescence than aksiums!

    Di2 or etap is a big turnoff for me on used bikes.

    Wrt wheels I deliberately banked a few nice rim braked wheelsets a few years ago but I can't say I've noticed a famine in availability yet anyway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,631 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    I think with wheelsets rim brake will stick around for a good long while, I think you’ll always be able to get high-end frame sets in rim brake, despite manufacturers pushing towards disc and in the peloton etc.

    It’s the mid range 1k - 2k bikes at the moment that seem to be almost exclusively disc with little to no option, which is surprising to me



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭saccades


    I'm not fussed about wheel standards (excluding that detour into 650b), as I have Hope RS4 hubs which have changeable end caps.

    Moved my qr disc wheels over to my new bolt thru frame in about 5 mins. Benefit of disc is a rim that lasts forever.

    Decent straight steerer MTB forks are very expensive if you can get them at all, rendering perfectly good frames useless.

    Electronic suspension and gears are kinda new so I expect to see a lot of changes over the next 10 years leaving early adaptors pissed off with firmware availability.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Moved my qr disc wheels over to my new bolt thru frame in about 5 mins.

    is the converse possible? i.e. can a qr frame take bolt thru wheels via an adapter?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,181 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Yes. I have prime disc wheels that have adapters for 15 and 12 thru axle and qr.


    If anything shouldn't it be easier to get adapters to make them wr compatible than the other way round



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭Mefistofelino


    " Short answer-- yes, with an "if." Long answer-- no, with a "but." "

    If the wheel is built on a through-axle hub AND the hub manufacturer makes suitable conversion end-caps (Hope, DT Swiss, Mavic, Formula, Hunt, Scribe etc), then you can, within limits, convert the wheels from bolt-through to QR. One possible limitation may be that the through-axle to QR adapters are often for 135mm so if you have 130 mm spacing, there may be an issue. I'm currently running through axle (rear) hubs converted to 135 QR and also have adapters to run the same wheels as 142 x 12.


    Edit: Be aware that some manufacturers (I'm looking at you, DT Swiss) don't have a single range of adapters for each conversion. It will depend on the hub model and often the year. The 12mm T/A to 135 QR adapter for DT Swiss 350 hub 2017 may be different from the 12mm T/A to 135 QR adapter for DT Swiss 350 hub 2019.

    As the adapters can run anything between €25 and €60 per axle set, you need to make sure you are getting the right variant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭saccades


    Yup, so long as the frame spacing isn't too small (don't think you can go down to 130 as it's such an "old" standard.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    was just around talking to derek. he was saying they don't really bother doing handbuilt disc wheels on QR anymore, hubs are hard to come by. he said zondas or ksyriums would be an option with the adapters, but basically talked me out of the sale, basically saying 'i wouldn't be bothered replacing the wheels on a winter bike until i actually had to, it's not worth it', so fair play to him for talking himself out of a sale.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,181 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    I always bring them the hubs myself



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,738 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Changed wheels late last year and DT Swiss were the only option for me, old ones (DT Swiss R24) were 100mm x 15mm thru axle front and 135mm x 10mm thru axle rear, centre lock brakes, even then took a couple of adaptors to get a replacement. Managed to get a new hub body for the old rear wheel while I was at it which had died so now also have a spare set. The DT Swiss adaptors are expensive but without them the bike would possibly have been a write off when the rear hub died.

    Planned obsolescence seems to becoming more of a thing in the bike world. My Garmin 810 power button died last week which again would have been junk if not for some handy youtube video I'm very much a fan of right to repair and will be making any future large bike related purchases with this in mind.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,109 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think i was suspended somewhere between bad luck and good luck so, in that my bike predated the move to thru axle, but especially the period where they hadn't actually settled on a thru axle standard?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭saccades


    I had that ("old" London Rd frame) with post mount brakes, just moved to a new frame with flat mount and bolt thru.

    Swapped the hub adaptors and got some post mount adaptors, a new seatpost and front mech and everything else moved straight over.



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