Trying to pay for things online without having online banking

Brussels Sprout

Looking for some advice and I'm not really sure what forum it should go in so trying here.

My father is in his late 70s. He has a credit card but he does not have online banking nor does he want it (he inherently doesn't trust it).

He likes to pay for bills in person although that seems to be getting more and more difficult these days.

A few years ago myself and my siblings got him a smart phone and then last year I set up with a subscription with 48.ie that would auto-renew each month off of his credit card (which he then pays off himself at his local bank).

Today his phone stopped working. After doing some diagnostics I realised that the issue was his credit card had expired. I tried to update his online account to his new card but I cannot do it successfully. It fails on the step where it verifies the transaction with his bank. Having gone through this already with a different utility provider I'm almost 100% certain this is because he cannot verify his identity via online banking.

So:

1. Are we moving to a scenario where credit cards will not function online unless you have online banking set up?
2. Are there any other mobile phone providers who offer a monthly service for calls + internet that you can pay for in shops instead of online?

New Home

48 are problematic - after a good few months of it working perfectly fine, late last year my BOI Mastercard stopped working. I was told by 48 customer service to contact the bank, they're the ones who have to "release/authorise" the transactions. I'm not sure what your father's bank is, but that should probably be your first port of call. If it IS BOI, they also have a sort of a keypad that can be used instead of an app to comply with the dual layer certification. In the meantime, you can pay with any other card, it doesn't have to be your Dad's own. Also, keep in mind that the membership he was on may not available to him any more if you wait too long to renew it (I can't remember if it's 3 or 6 months). If it lapses, he may have to accept the current, possibly dearer price.

I don't think online banking (e.g. check your bank account/pay a bill, etc) and credit cards are necessarily linked, but you would need a "dual layer authorisation" (I think it's called) to proceed with any transaction using that card, and that "dual layer authorisation" is usually either done via an app on the phone or via a sort of keypad.

If someone else is willing to do so, they could use their own credit card on your Dad's 48 account to cover for his membership, and he could then refund them by paying through a bank branch/the post office like he's always done.

Graces7

sam t smith

Could you take a photo of a cheque using your phones camera and send them the photo of the cheque?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892271#Comment_118892271

The supermarket should not be holding your card details. I know it works for you Grace but you are at risk of your card details being accessed by someone who sees an opportunity and clears your account. Be very careful with this Grace.

Jim_Hodge

Online buying has become a pain in the whatsit with this dual authorisation creeping in. Mire and more we're being asked to verify purchases using a card reader or an app. A man in the local AIB was having serious difficulty as he hadn't a smartphone and there seemed little they could do for him. This is going to be the norm going forward and it'll be far from simple.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892308#Comment_118892308

It's a pain for me and I'm only 40!. The main issue is the software is poor. I can only imagine the problems it's causing for the elderly.

ax530

It's so awkward I find for lots sites need to do the transaction on same device as the BOI app is installed. I prefer to use my computer to phone this not possibly.

My parents have smartphone but between pin, login, which bank card .... Online purchases which they could just about manage are now too problematic.

Think the card reader device is best but do all banks offer those ?

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892303#Comment_118892303

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892318#Comment_118892318

Graces7

WIshing all here well. Signing off as very unwell... Blessings and peace

looksee

I agree the verification stage causes problems. It is not always needed but any time I have needed to use verification with the BOI app it has failed, last time it was simply that the swipe request never arrived at my phone, in spite of several attempts. My daughter in law has the same issue but my son and daughter both have no problems.

It reminds me that I need to do something about sorting the problem, but on the couple of occasions it has happened - I am not entirely clear why some transactions don't need verification, but a few do - I have found a different way of paying, but it is a nuisance. I prefer to use my laptop for online banking, but between accessing the laptop version and then dealing with the verification, it can be frustrating.

New Home

Some credit unions offer current accounts with debit cards, etc, and I know of at least one that uses facial recognition to validate the transactions, which is why I opted against opening an account with them. Having said that, it might be helpful for your father, it would avoid him lots of steps.

Brussels Sprout

I completely forgot that I opened this thread. (I just got an alert that there was a new post in it).

I managed to resolve this in the end via AIB after a few calls. Here's how I did it in case anyone else is in the same boat:

AIB offer a service for people in my father's situation (ie who want to use a Credit card online but don't have or want Online Banking).

It's called Digital Profile. You register for it. You need to supply your phone number and email which they verify by sending you an email and an SMS. Then you add your card to that (although you have to wait 2 days before you can do that - which they don't tell you and resulted in another call from me). After that you create a password to use with the card in future. All of that is a bit of a pain but you only need to do it once.

Then if you make an online purchase a window will pop up asking for that password and a code that they send to your phone via SMS. When you enter those your purchase will be verified.

I was subsequently able to pay for my father's 48.ie membership and his TV bill online using his own credit card.

Here's the URL for registering for that AIB service: https://aib.ie/secure-internet-shopping/digital-id

Jellybaby_1

We believed that we HAD to download the BOI app to my phone, so we did, this was mainly to pay our Mastercard bill. We had trouble with it from the start and got very frustrated with it. However himself eventually rang BOI and asked do we really have to use the app just to pay our MC bill and the staff member said no so we deleted it and arranged for paper (yay) bills to be posted to us again and we now just go online via our desktop computer to our bank and transfer the money to pay the credit card. This system has worked for us for many years so we're thankful that we can still use it. I never use my phone for financial transactions.

looksee

But you can't access the 365 on a computer without the phone app? How do you get onto 365 without it? I had a row with BoI about this because they were not explaining the situation and I now open the app on the phone then go into BoI on the computer. I prefer to use the laptop as it is easier to see everything on the bigger screen.

New Home

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118895978#Comment_118895978

I have a sort of a fob that looks like a tamagotchi, it has a number pad, a few other buttons and a screen to see the code; I refused to use the application on the phone and this was the alternative.

New Home

It's called a "Physical security key", I've just checked.

https://www.bankofireland.com/physical-security-key/

Jellybaby_1

We don't have a BOI account so don't need to access 365.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892308#Comment_118892308

Its just a poor implementation from the Irish banks. Any online shopping I do, if 2FA is needed it's just a matter of a fingerprint on the phone.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118896575#Comment_118896575

Had to look up 2FA.

I don't want fingerprint in the phone thanks. I can hardly get reception in the phone around here and rarely use one.

looksee

I have a credit card but I rarely use it. I use my debit card, and that is the one that creates problems with the security code. When they say 'if you ONLY have a BoI credit card' do they mean as against any other credit card, or only a credit card but no debit card'?

I have a Huawei phone and I have a vague notion that it may be something to do with that, I can't exactly recall though (the joys of getting old!).

Fogmatic

Thank you for starting this useful discussion, Brussels Sprout, and reporting back with the info! It's already helped with one of the things I've been trying to find out for months.

AIB's Digital Profile facility sounds just what my husband needs - I think. I'm slightly confused though - is it only for people who don't do internet banking? (That would be a big problem for us, as internet banking as well as online shopping are essentials where we are). Also, are AIB's SMS double-authentication codes really via SMS (with the code there in plain text), like Ulster Bank's? Some texts we get (from our mobile/internet provider, for instance) are actually MMS, as they contain a link, and we can't follow those, as the mobile signal in our area isn't up to carrying any data whatever).

still have a question or two though, and this forum seems the most relevant for them. (I'm familar with the Personal Banking one, but it's so busy and wide-ranging that that the less usual questions tend to slip down the pages before anyone who can help has seen them). Mine around this subject arose because asking AIB isn't easy, as the branch phone and email contacts seem to be for existing custemers only. (I presume that's because they can't deal with a stream of queries from switchers without neglecting their existing customers. But that only strengthens my opinion that they're the first choice in my case!).

Some background first might save a bit of time; husband and I are both in our mid/late 70s, and looking to switch from Ulster Bank to AIB. No word yet from Ulster giving us however long until account closure (3 months maybe?), but I want to start the process now, via AIB's Option B so as to get things in place at more leisure. (Small incomes plus poor infrastructure in our rural area creates enough problems already, without adding the stress of extra cliffhangers!).

We have no family in this country, but in this case the tech side of this switching isn't the problem, as I've been home computing since the mid 1980s. That was a good time to start, as for us ordinary mortals it meant learning about how they work (logically and physically), replacing/adding parts, etc (all still useful). It was also the right place for looking into 'this computer thing' (London). We're also in good (ish) health, but I've still been struggling to get clarification of some details, like how exactly to start our bank switching process. And whether dual authentication can be managed without a smartphone (hence Brussel Sprout's info being so useful). I hate to think of the problems the more vulnerable must be facing (feeling quite angry about it, almost like when moving to Ireland in the early 90s to find its computer industry conveniently making a big mystique of the subject). End of rant (sorry!).

My current devices are Windows laptop and Android smartphone. But so far, the only tech device my husband's interested in owning is his pocket non-smart phone, for calls, SMS and the odd photo. He manages his email and online shopping in whatever device(s) I have at the time, with a little help when needed.

I'm impressed with AIB's website, after Ulster Bank's which I find very simplistic and lacking in detail. (And as for Cora... a digital assistant who for instance still doesn't know what 'computer' or 'laptop' mean?)

Anyway, I downloaded AIB's Switching Pack some time ago (and again recently in case anything had changed), and printed it out last week for easier reference). I find it refreshingly well designed compared to most things of its kind (it's like they actually thought to get someone to try it who doesn't already know the subject in their sleep!). And the same with the forms - but I'm still in the dark about what to do with them, and when.

Like, complete and send them now? And by what means, and where to? Or take them with us along with the ID when we eventually get an appointment to visit the branch? And how to ask for one, when the branch's email and phone contacts seem to be for existing customers only? I also couldn't seem to find out if our branch is one of those where I'd read of switchers being able to start the process by going there (though that one's now answered). I was at least able to establish that online applications aren't possible in our case, as they seem to involve some kind of video chat, and our broadband isn't up to video streaming. (I then noticed that our UK passports exclude us anyway; thanks to b****y Brexit, I guess!).

Dealing with this kind of thing by phone can be quite difficult in our place, especially if they involve being called back. With mobile calls it's usually 'emergency calls only' inside the house, so it's out into the conservatory for those. And just to make juggling devices more fun, our wifi doesn't reach out there. Neither does the signal to the handsets for our ex landline (which I won't get started on here!) number, which I ported to VOIP. So I'd been hoping not to have to ring the central AIB number, but finally bit the bullet on Thursday. After hanging on for 40 minutes, I got through. However, I didn't learn much, as he kept fading, and unfortunately some traffic noise (which can get quite loud out in the conservatory) also drowned out a lot of what he was saying. I think he must have heard my questions okay (anf lidyenel because I did heard him saying that our particular branch wasn't currently doing any walk-in initial applications for switchers. And that the average backlog for an appointment for the branch visit was currently 6-8 weeks. Those were the only answers among what I could hear (the rest of which was things I already knew, e.g. what ID to take with us). I'm not sure if it's worth trying again. (Could drive to a town to get a decent signal, but the street noise usually makes it hard to hear the other party even when sitting in the car, and it can be fiddly to arrange visits to the few people in town that I know well enough).

If you've got this far, thank you for reading all this! And I'll be very grateful for any bits of this jigsaw that you might be able to fill in.

Fogmatic

Apologies for that saga! I was editing it (cutting, basically!), when our internet went. That and our mobile service have been on and off this past week for some reason; engineering work, perhaps (went to check on the website once, but found we were incommunicado again...).

After all that, my questions have now been pretty well answered anyway. I did one of my occasional shopping trips yesterday to the town with the AIB branch in question (in which I've never spotted any people when driving past). This time I stopped for a closer look in case of any relevant notices in the window, found the door wide open, went in, and a helpful member of staff materialised. They explained how to request an appointment to do the forms etc there, with their help, and answers to any remaining questions. (Maybe not till August, but they're working on cutting down the backlog). All we need to do meanwhile is make sure we'll have the necessary proof of address etc ready to take with us, and decide on a switch starting date that we think would be least disruptive. (I've also been meaning.to close my almost emptied Ulster deposit account for years, so might as well do that now, too (one less potential delay, maybe!).

They seemed most surprised at the man on the phone saying we couldn't call in at the branch. But it's quite possible he faded away in mid sentence, and I missed something like "... and start the switch immediately."!

Of course it's now too late to edit the other post (or to delete it, it seems). So if a Mod thinks it should be removed, please do!

Graces7

Whiles on and all is well with the manager trustd with my card and at one stage I with his. when there was an urgent issue. I could not manage otherwise.

I live in a tiny community and being housebound now mutual trust like this is a part of life. My debit card is my lifeline. And we have to trust to survive.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893087#Comment_118893087

I gave up on that today.. The print was so small and delicate.. All I need is monthly statements .... I have a separate account with permanent TSB whose changes meant I was on the phone to them for nearly an hour today. So I told them the same. My cards work fine online. Been housebound all but for four years now. Need it all very simple. I know now exactly where I am at.