PPS number waiting times

jonnyphant

Are others also experiencing hefty waiting times?

Mrs applied 2 weeks ago and still no word back, this article suggests it can be a 4-5 week wait;

https://www.thejournal.ie/ppsn-backlog-department-of-social-protection-5666509-Jan2022/

Dempo1

Based on the departments own Twitter page it would seem there's still delays , might be worth exploring getting the Mrs to post an update request on the DEASP twitter feed, they seem to respond quickly .

I'm not sure how the department is able to expedite issuing PPS numbers at point of entry for the Ukrainian Refugees (Rightly so incidently) and yet others on work permits for example waiting up to 2 months .

zell12

I was going to make the same point, demand equality, go the ukrainian route https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/abf3e-social-welfare-supports-for-ukrainian-citizens-arriving-in-ireland-under-the-temporary-protection-directive/#getting-public-services-when-you-arrive-in-ireland

Mezcita

Recently took my sister in law two months to get one.

YaaaasQueen

Hi,

just moved to Ireland on a working holiday visa and applied for a PPS number last week.

what do people do in the 1-2 month period they are waiting for a PPS number? Can we get a job or not?

thanks

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813094#Comment_118813094

Unfortunately not , you can not be legally employed without a PPS number in Ireland.

Whilst I'm sure there are cash paying Jobs and you do have a working holiday visa , perhaps an employer might consider employing you and hold off paying you officially until such time as you receive a PPS number but its risky and I can't recommend or advise you to consider this approach.

The process of getting a PPS number has been shockingly slow. I'd strongly advise you pester (Politely) the DEASP on their Twitter feed , they seem to react quickly through social media channels.

TooTired123

I never thought I’d find the day when I felt I needed to say this, but I know people who have arrived in Ireland in the last 18 months looking for a PPSN to a. Start a job b. Open a bank account c. Exchange a drivers licence and they have waited months even to get an appointment to apply for one never mind be awarded one.

But we can suddenly provide 7000 instantly for Ukrainian refugees? I’m sorry but it’s just not good enough. I know we had the pandemic but that’s still not good enough.

messrs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813094#Comment_118813094

People in my company working while waiting on a PPS number. They are getting paid each week but just getting emergency taxed. So loosing close to half their wages each week. I have had some waiting on one since before christmas and still not received it

ari101

@Dempo1 Have the rules changed in regards to employment without PPS or is it that employers were more lax previously?

Waiting on a PPS number being issued prevents you from being registered with revenue for payroll correctly, so results in emergency tax (highest rates applied) but I did not think it necessarily stopped you starting work. I have paid employees on full emergency basis before where a PPSN was not available (newly arrived in Ireland) and I understand there are provisions under PAYE Mod for this scenario too.

I thought you could get a job based on having a valid permit or right due to being an EEA citizen etc, while awaiting the processing of your PPS application? I'm just curious to understand is this practice technically illegal?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118814325#Comment_118814325

The whole situation seems to be Catch-22 land. You can't get a job without a PPSN. You can't apply for a PPSN unless you have a job. Looking for work isn't reason enough for them to issue a PPSN, you must actually have a job. But you can't have a job without a PPSN... https://relocatingtoireland.com/working-in-ireland/irish-pps-number/

Given all that - and I Am Not A Lawyer disclaimers - I'd say go ahead as you are, give people jobs and apply emergency tax, remit that to Revenue, and you'd be in no danger of being prosecuted cos it'd make Revenue/Social Welfare look like right eejits!

ari101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118814389#Comment_118814389

Haha, making people wait months for a bloody PPSN makes us look like eejits anyway. Such a basic requirement should have some priority in staffing and managing wait times. (Yes I know... I'm inciting a grumble war about government etc. which I don't want to get into!)

I think the @YaaaasQueen should look for work and cross the I don't have a PPSN when they get an offer. You will lose 52% of what you earn initially unfortunately, but you should get it back automatically once your records are updated with a PPS. And if your employer/Revenue mess up reconciling your pre/post PPS pay, you will be able to claim it back, just make sure you get and keep all your payslips.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118814325#Comment_118814325

Honestly, I don't know of any rule change but perhaps I'm mistaken, it is very much a catch 22 scenario whilst technically a person with a valid work permit can work, the issue is getting paid and that pay being correctly recorded from a taxation point of view.

I've a neighbour (farmer) who's brought in 3 Brazilian nationals to help on the farm. They are here legally have all their paperwork and are waiting almost 2 months for a PPS number.

I guess my point is, without a PPS number it's near impossible for an employer to employ someone, perhaps I was incorrect in the use of "Legally" but certainly not straightforward to employ a person without one.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118814389#Comment_118814389

It's not necessarily a requirement to have a Job to apply for a PPS Number .

ari101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118814464#Comment_118814464

Ah ok, then I would say it results in emergency tax and hassle not that it prevents employment.

Payroll processing software includes the possibility of paying people without a PPSN, so is set up to do the calculations for the employer. Under PAYE Mod, systems should automatically retain and link the employment ID pre and post PPS to make the transition fairly seamless. If someone is operating a manual payroll via ROS (which are rather rare these days) then it might be a bit of a challenge but not otherwise.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118814536#Comment_118814536

Your correct but there's also the added concern (unlikely) but possibility someone is refused a PPS number , can you imagine employing someone in good faith for weeks or months and then discover that person can't get a pps number , I know unlikely but a big risk for an employer to take.

ari101

Most employers who have seen proof if EEA Citizenship, or work permit, etc. and who have vetted your CV and references won't have any issues. I believe the onus on employers is to ensure the right to work, a PPSN cannot be requested before an organisation agrees to employ someone, nor can it be accepted as proof of right to work.

I imagine if someone was refused they will likely leave Ireland due to the inability to be taxed fairly and the employer will have to replace them, but for the right employee or someone only needed short term it is a small risk. All the issues of tax remain between the employee and revenue, with no exposure for the employer as long as they apply emergency basis.

Tow

It is no longer a requirement to have a PPSN to be employed. You will be taxed on full Emergency Tax (40% + 8%) without it. However, your proper name should be used on the Payroll, so it is not changed when you show your employer proof of PPSN. Each time you are paid your employer is required to send the details into Revenue. The records in Revenue without a PPSN will be updated with the PPSN the first time it is provided, but only if the employee number, first and surname match. If they are not matched it may cause problems later.

Sunny Dayz

To file a wage on Revenue's system without a PPS number you will need the employee's full address and date of birth.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118814646#Comment_118814646

Useful to know, I wasn't aware of that 👍

YaaaasQueen

Thank you all for the advice. This whole system is messed up.

All the ways of applying for a PPS are catch 22’s (so it would seem). You can apply for a PPS if you need to apply for welfare, but you need a letter from welfare stating you need it. You can apply for one for to access medical services, but you need a GP to accept you into their practice and to write a letter saying you need a PPS. You can also apply for one if you are applying for a drivers licence, but you need to upload your NDLS application. Can’t even get to that application the online route (MyGovID) without a PPS.

How on earth do you apply for a PPS as a newcomer looking for work? You upload a PDF copy of the drivers licence application, which you need to Google to find, and leave the PPS number blank…… it took me 6 emails, 3 phone calls (answered) and 5 (unanswered) (plus lots of tears) to figure out that all I need to do is put my name and address on a form and upload it to MyGovID. They will never know if I really do submit it to get my Canadian license exchanged….

zell12

Meanwhile, 7,326 people arriving from Ukraine have been issued with PPSNs. https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0322/1287693-ireland-politics/

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819808#Comment_118819808

I absolutely don't begrudge this move but it really does raise serious questions on not just this matter but on other long running failures of the state and let be honest this and previous government's.